English | Bulgarian | 11 February 2012 | Follow Us 
Youtube rss feed Newsletter
 
Search []  |  Log in | Register

euinside

London
Brussels
Sofia
Moscow
Beijing
Washington

The problem between Greece and Macedonia is the lack of trust

Published: August 16, 2010 14:04, Adelina Marini, Sofia

Is it possible the Gordian knot between Greece and Macedonia to be untied? This question periodically reappears in public, becomes essential in European Union's agenda when the dispute between the two countries heats up, but then again recedes in anticipation a magic power to appear, which could leave all sides satisfied.

The conflict

The problem between the two Balkan states emerged with the separation of Republic of Macedonia from Yugoslavia and the pretenses of the country to take the name Macedonia. Something with which neighbouring Greece disagrees, because it has an entire region, called Macedonia. The conflict is being additionally complicated by the fact that Greece is a member of NATO and the European Union and Macedonia has aspirations to join both organisations. Athens, however, has a strategic advantage to impose veto or to be in the position of being able to put conditions. This detail casts a dark shadow over EU's attempts to have a single foreign policy, at least in terms of what is going on in its backyard.

According to Gerald Knaus, one of the founders of the European Stability Initiative, former Open Society fellow, there is a solution. He proposes such a solution that would end a situation of mockery for the European ambitions for an effective foreign policy in the Balkans.

Gerald Knaus thinks that the core problem is the lack of trust between the two countries. Greece realises that the only leverage for influencing Macedonia for a change of its constitutional name is to use its position of a member of the EU to block Skopje's path to membership. Even Greece's pressure to block Macedonia's accession to NATO cannot do the job - only the EU. In the meantime, the analyst writes, most politicians in Athens realise that they have a vital interest in Macedonia's stability. Besides, Athens fully supports EU's enlargement to the Balkans and, something very important - it does not want to be used by those countries in the Union which are interested in blocking the Balkan enlargement for good.

The other side of the problem is the tendency, in recent years, Skopje to be more intransigent, because it is clear that any constitutional change would require broad support in the country. Prime Minister Nikola Gruevsky enjoys a strong political position, but possible constitutional amendments require two thirds majority in Parliament, as well as the support of the two ethnic communities in the country. Gerald Knaus also considers it almost certain that there would be a referendum on the matter.

The problem has a third side too - officials in Skopje and in the EU believe that the current Greek government of George Papandreou wants a solution but in general the trust in the Greek political establishment is vague. And, again in support of the thesis for a lack of trust between the two countries - the people and leaders in Skopje might be prepared to a compromise on the name of Macedonia but under one condition: such a change to guarantee the country membership to the EU. No Greek government, however, could guarantee that if Skopje would make a compromise today, this would open the door of the EU for Macedonia, because a new government could eventually be against it.

The proposal

Gerald Knaus proposes an amendment in Macedonia's Constitution, changing the country's name, because this would give Athens an option to support the beginning of accession talks with the EU later this year. In the meantime, such a change should enter into force on the day of Macedonia's accession to the EU. Mr Knaus even proposes a possible text for such an amendment: "All references to the Republic of Macedonia in this constitution will be replaced by a reference to XX (a compromise name such as Republic of Macedonia – Vardar) on the day this country joins the European Union."

If, for some reasons, Skopje would not join the Union then the country would not have to change its name, the analyst writes. But such a constitutional text would guarantee that Macedonia, after it becomes a EU member, the change of name would happen automatically and immediately, which could also be written in its accession treaty. According to Knaus, such a solution would allow both countries and their leaders claim victory yet today. Besides, the government in Skopje would turn Greece into a real ally (based upon mutual interest), that could facilitate a timely EU membership. On its behalf, Athens would guarantee itself dividends for the simple fact that no Greek government has so far succeeded in tackling the problem.

The solution Jerald Knaus proposes sounds easy but is it feasible since a significant part of the problem is what the new name should be? Furthermore, such a solution does not suggest a solution in principle - what name should Macedonia have even if not a EU member state? Because even now there are a lot of countries in the region (Bulgaria excluded) which have recognised Macedonia as a state but not with its constitutional name, and refer to it as FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). Apparently, good neighbourly relations cannot be at stake only in terms of EU membership. Such a solution is needed that could recover trust between Greece and Macedonia in the long run, no matter any membership.

  • The problem between Greece and Macedonia is the lack of trust
Comments
August 17, 2010 11:46
Kiro Velkovski
There are no countries in the region that refer to Macedonia by any other name than our constitutional name. Check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute#Naming_policies_of_foreign_countries_and_organisationsNow there are less than 15 countries in the world that do not use our constitutional name.
Next time check your facts before publishing your (biased) opinion. BTW, Mr. Knaus says - change your religion, change your sexual orientation, change your name, so you can enter EU. Bug off, we do not want to enter by any other name. We'll wait 20 more years, if needed.
August 17, 2010 13:17
Adelina
Well, you should better check the link you've posted yourself, because there it says that Greece refers to Macedonia as FYROM. And I don't see any particular reason for you to claim that the article is biased. It just gives ground for external opinion. A proposal for a solution. It does not state any specific position that you could define as biased. I understand that the issue is quite sensitive for all Macedonians, but, please, do read without prejudice. It could help you a lot. All the best :)
August 17, 2010 13:18
the Macedonian Tiger
I can write by myself in wikipedia what I want.
Definetly the wikipedia is not the right source of information if you want to be precise.

For example:
The Moon is the Motherland of Macedonian nation

Is this sounds reasonable ? :D
August 18, 2010 09:51
Kiro Velkovski
Yes, it is biased. Negatively. Asking the unimaginable - to change the name. And, in the region there are more countries than only Greece and Bulgaria, and they all use our constitutional name.
And, yes, Wikipedia can be changed by anybody, but, please try to post false data in it, and you will see that it will be immediately removed. If you have any data that is more precise, please share it with us. But, again, there are only less than 15 countries in the world that do not use our constitutional name. 
"Bias is a term used to describe a tendency or preference towards a particular perspective, ideology or result, when the tendency interferes with the ability to be impartial, unprejudiced, or objective.. In other words, bias is generally seen as a 'one-sided' perspective. ..."

Again, the bias part - why don't you analyze the position of Athens, but your one-sided "analysis" consider only Macedonia changing the name? Why don't you consider a possibility for them to change their stance? They changed it a lot in these 20 years. But, again, it seems to me that their stance is that they stole us money i.e. they started using the name Macedonia in 1991 or something, and now, "fairly", they want to give us half or our money back (read, Northern Macedonia, Vardar Macedonia, etc.). On the other hand - why should we believe them that they will stick to their promises? Do you know that they didn't ratify the Interim Accord from 1995, yet?
If your excuse is that Athens is member of the EU (it is NOT a club, it is a multilateral treaty organization!) and we are not, and that this gives them right to blackmail us, then we don't want to be members of such a club. Check the polls in Macedonia that reflect what people think.
Further reading for you: http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/macedonia-and-greece-what-is-the-basis-for-a-reconciliation/
BTW, UN does not use the acronym you mention. They always use the long form. Only Athens uses the acronym.
August 18, 2010 12:29
Adelina
I think the position of Athens is well analysed in the opinion of Mr Knaus. If you mean by "analysis" for us or Mr Knaus to put pressure on Athens or to require a change of their position, you are wrong. We are journalists, and as such we have provided the positions of both countries. I don't have the intention of showing support for any of these position, neither does the article. We have also posed several questions, which argue the position of Mr Knaus too (in the end of the article). So, again, I definately do not agree with you that this article is biased. You have your point of not agreeing with the Athen's position, but do you actually understand it?
August 18, 2010 13:35
Kiro Velkovski
Would you ask anyone to change its' sexual orientation? Religion? But it is OK to discuss a change of name?!?
Knaus supports Athens' position. The vile need to harm your neighbor. And, again, what is suggestion for Athens? To accept the name change? Not to change their crazy attitude that a name can do harm? Why don't fellow EU members consider helping Athens by making them change their schizophrenic attitude? We do not need help. If we are ready to bargain with our name, then we'll need help by psychiatrist.
Change of name will not change attitude of Athens. That analysis is missing in his work. And your comment should just disregard his half-baked biased opinion as it is not worth mentioning. Forget Mr. Knaus. He's not worth it. Maybe in Monopoly world we can put our name at stake, but not in this world.
August 18, 2010 23:26
Adelina
I am certain that this is exactly what Mr Knaus has felt - that it is needed to secure Athens not changing attitudes. It is another question whether a simple change of name would do the trick. But if you are sure that Macedonia doesn't need help, OK - do it your way. And good luck, by the way
August 19, 2010 11:55
Kiro Velkovski
Thank you, but we don't need luck. The pervert politicians from our southern neighbor need luck. We are righteous, therefore, we will somehow get recognition (check again the numbers of the countries that use our constitutional name vs the others - it is like 130 vs 13). If we change name to give security to them, seems like treating the symptoms not the illness. THEY have to change the attitude e.g. like Great Britain towards Ireland. THEY feel insecure (not from our 8.000 soldiers vs 240.000 their soldiers). THEIR problem. We can only offer one relief - they can call us Republic of Macedonia (RoM, as RoI in GB) to make distinction between their regions and our country.We are not a kid, child, baby, or country with arrested development. We are nation. Equal to others. Our ethnogenesis can be discussed by scientists, but it does not impair our right to self-determination. If we start to question Bulgarian, Serbian, Greek, Albanian, Romanian, English, French, Italian ethnogenesis, I don't think that we'll be in lot of trouble.We are Macedonians. We decide to call our country Macedonia. End of story. 
(P.S. Check these numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion/Macedonia#Background . And this is the best solution to end the dispute - just use Wikipedia terminology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Macedonia) )
August 19, 2010 12:35
Kiro Velkovski
August 19, 2010 20:34
Adelina
Well, your latest comment should be read by many of Macedonian politicians. And I sincerely hope that they will. I get your point and I also think that if you would be able to defend such a position in a good manner, without aggressiveness and stubbornness, you will have a big chance, I really wish you all the best. For Bulgaria the most important thing is all of us to be in the EU. Therefore, the rest of your efforts should be focused on Greece. And this is why I wish you luck because Greece is in a very tough situation, both politcally and economically and this is why you definately need luck :)
August 31, 2010 20:23
anonymous
А с кое име фюром участва в международните организации?
September 01, 2010 00:03
Adelina
That's a good question :)
October 12, 2010 07:40
A Real Macedonian
I am of Greek Macedonian heritage and I find it offensive that you, Kiro, believe you have the God given right to call yourself a Macedonian and arrogantly dismiss the rest us Macedonian Greeks.  You vehemently believe that you are a Macedonian, when in fact true Macedonians are Greek.  This is the root of this whole name conflict.  I take offense that you and your kind call yourselves Macedonians, when you are actually Slavs who at some point in time decided to call yourselves Macedonian.  Now you truly believe that you are one of us true Macedonians from Greece.  All of you so called Macedonians dellusional to believe this lie and pass it onto each new generation.  There are milions of true Macedonians in Greece and troughout the world who will never allow this lie and propoganda to perpetuate from Skopje.  How dare you usurp my heritage and identity.  You and your kind should hang your heads in shame.
November 06, 2010 23:23
Truth delights
The article should have used the agreed temporary provisional reference "former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" whenever it is was referring to the country whose capital is Skopjie. This article is read by the whole users passers-by of the Net. Even if you are addressed to EU civilians  you should have used this reference.
June 23, 2011 15:42
Silvana mkd
i really dont understand how can be mixed politic and history, there is all about politic to save greece not macedonia, so why we're trying to explain someones who are not competent persons or make them like that.  if we start from a greeks documents, speach or something elese we'll see that greeks never says that macedonians are GREEKS they called them VARVARIANS for example read the text against philip. i propose to watch the video on youtube, an reserch by greek TV, they thought that will hear something else not crying of macedonian people who just expect from greece to be recognized like a macedonian minority. one simple questione when the aegean part before 1913 was to greece???? never!!!! all the parts were stolen by force and with a condition to recognise minority , to let them learn at macedonian language.Once in strasbourg greece lost by macedonian organization ,,Izgrev,, cause they fired theirs office. I think that we have another chance to bring greece in strasbourg for genocide and breaking a humans rights. another thing, why in greece before 1976 didn't exist nothing like names macedonia, aleksandar the grate, oposite it was strongly prohibited. WHYYYY???? and the last years they call themsefs Macedonians???? they're scared about that part of losing, and EU support them cause if they lose and they know that it will lose, EU will have to pay for greece cause they never have money and take from all over the world like a beggars. 
June 23, 2011 15:58
anonymous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOubJ0Xdk4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg4Nm6Cyptc
at one reserching by switzerland's institut ,, Igenea'' who reserch about the origin of europians and  and applies to one of the leading DNA Analyses, on request by greece asking for the origin of ,, slavomacedonians,, as they call, research showed: todays macedonian are directly descendants of ancient macedonia and Alexander. most of today's Macedonians, or 30% are descendants of the ancient. A smaller part oftheir roots and Teutite (20%) and Helens (15%), 15 percent of the Slavic Macedonians have genes, and to a lesser extent, our ancestors and Illyria (10%), the Huns (5%) andPhoenician (5 %).For the Greeks, the survey of "iGENEA" found that 31 percent of them have Celtic roots, 32% share Macedonian, Hellenic and even Arab origin, 12% - German and Slavic, and 11% of Greeks originated the Illyrians.
So why they have darkness skin from the people of balkans :)))))) 
June 23, 2011 16:02
Silvana mkd
The average Serb is a mixture of Slavs (30%), Illyrians (21%), Teutite (18%) and lower percentage originated from the Celts (14%), Phoenicians (9%) Hellenes (6%) and evenand 2 percent of the Vikings. Bosnians, Albanians and Croats pulled up roots from theIllyrians, the Slovenes Teutite and Illyrians, and some have small Jewish origin andvandal. Generally, all the Balkan nations have some of Slavic origin, but onlyMacedonians dominate the roots of ancient Macedonia and a small part of the ancientGreeks pulled origin. Other Balkan nations have no such roots.Comparing the Y chromosome Igeneaa found that Macedonia is most group 12a, whichthey say, comes from the Balkans, and today, in addition to Macedonia, can often be found in Croatia and Bosnia. This is a rare lineage, which was recorded in WesternEurope, including the British Isles. The second group is most present E1b1b, whichoriginates from East Africa and today is most peoples in Europe, especially the Mediterranean and the Balkans.Igeneaa is a leading institute in genetic research. In its analysis, the Swiss Institute, in addition to genetic, used historical, archaeological and anthropological sources.
September 14, 2011 19:31
Aleksandar
We Dont Need Such a Union  that dont recognise the ethnic cleaning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRfrgu2qtXA
Where The vital functions are leading presidents with girlfriend 19 years old
there are so many things that sucks that cant be under Carpet
This Union Will not Last Long (Just like other ilusions)
We need Reality and The Truth /Thats Gods Will- Then will be Light
PS:The Lie Got Short Legs (Macedonian Words)
October 25, 2011 19:11
Vasil
Interesting construction. Macedonian Greeks. Are there any other Greeks? Like Athenian Greeks, Spartanian Greeks, Thessaloniki Greeks, Turkey Greeks. How about Ancient Greeks. Everything ancient is Greek. Never mind the word never existed in ancient times. We do not know of any ancient or later times that somebody used word Macedonian Greek. The Greeks have to go through a lot of inventing to prove that their newest construction Macedonian Greek was used by somebody else prior 1913. 
January 20, 2012 06:42
Cliotus
Since the down fall of Byzantium, 4th Crusade.. Invasion of Ottoman Turks,Farna greeks getting admistrive control of Christian peoples of Balkans.greeks have been pulling the wool of western europe  for a long time.It is as obvious as nose on your face, western europe goes along with what ever greace makes up. They have been propping her up since 1829,and she has been unable to pay any loan since then till the present day.Like modern greace & eu corrupt as they come
If you have a comment, please post it here.
Name:      
The field 'Nick' is not required. If you leave it blank, your comment will be named with 'anonymous' author. However you are welcome to register on our site and participate in our comments with your user name.
About Us  |   Projects  |   Copyright  |   Support Us  |   Advertisement  |   Contact Us