English Български
Follow Us
Subscribe
Search : [ ]
|

The problem between Greece and Macedonia is the lack of trust

Published on , , Sofia

Is it possible the Gordian knot between Greece and Macedonia to be untied? This question periodically reappears in public, becomes essential in European Union's agenda when the dispute between the two countries heats up, but then again recedes in anticipation a magic power to appear, which could leave all sides satisfied.

The conflict

The problem between the two Balkan states emerged with the separation of Republic of Macedonia from Yugoslavia and the pretenses of the country to take the name Macedonia. Something with which neighbouring Greece disagrees, because it has an entire region, called Macedonia. The conflict is being additionally complicated by the fact that Greece is a member of NATO and the European Union and Macedonia has aspirations to join both organisations. Athens, however, has a strategic advantage to impose veto or to be in the position of being able to put conditions. This detail casts a dark shadow over EU's attempts to have a single foreign policy, at least in terms of what is going on in its backyard.

According to Gerald Knaus, one of the founders of the European Stability Initiative, former Open Society fellow, there is a solution. He proposes such a solution that would end a situation of mockery for the European ambitions for an effective foreign policy in the Balkans.

Gerald Knaus thinks that the core problem is the lack of trust between the two countries. Greece realises that the only leverage for influencing Macedonia for a change of its constitutional name is to use its position of a member of the EU to block Skopje's path to membership. Even Greece's pressure to block Macedonia's accession to NATO cannot do the job - only the EU. In the meantime, the analyst writes, most politicians in Athens realise that they have a vital interest in Macedonia's stability. Besides, Athens fully supports EU's enlargement to the Balkans and, something very important - it does not want to be used by those countries in the Union which are interested in blocking the Balkan enlargement for good.

The other side of the problem is the tendency, in recent years, Skopje to be more intransigent, because it is clear that any constitutional change would require broad support in the country. Prime Minister Nikola Gruevsky enjoys a strong political position, but possible constitutional amendments require two thirds majority in Parliament, as well as the support of the two ethnic communities in the country. Gerald Knaus also considers it almost certain that there would be a referendum on the matter.

The problem has a third side too - officials in Skopje and in the EU believe that the current Greek government of George Papandreou wants a solution but in general the trust in the Greek political establishment is vague. And, again in support of the thesis for a lack of trust between the two countries - the people and leaders in Skopje might be prepared to a compromise on the name of Macedonia but under one condition: such a change to guarantee the country membership to the EU. No Greek government, however, could guarantee that if Skopje would make a compromise today, this would open the door of the EU for Macedonia, because a new government could eventually be against it.

The proposal

Gerald Knaus proposes an amendment in Macedonia's Constitution, changing the country's name, because this would give Athens an option to support the beginning of accession talks with the EU later this year. In the meantime, such a change should enter into force on the day of Macedonia's accession to the EU. Mr Knaus even proposes a possible text for such an amendment: "All references to the Republic of Macedonia in this constitution will be replaced by a reference to XX (a compromise name such as Republic of Macedonia – Vardar) on the day this country joins the European Union."

If, for some reasons, Skopje would not join the Union then the country would not have to change its name, the analyst writes. But such a constitutional text would guarantee that Macedonia, after it becomes a EU member, the change of name would happen automatically and immediately, which could also be written in its accession treaty. According to Knaus, such a solution would allow both countries and their leaders claim victory yet today. Besides, the government in Skopje would turn Greece into a real ally (based upon mutual interest), that could facilitate a timely EU membership. On its behalf, Athens would guarantee itself dividends for the simple fact that no Greek government has so far succeeded in tackling the problem.

The solution Jerald Knaus proposes sounds easy but is it feasible since a significant part of the problem is what the new name should be? Furthermore, such a solution does not suggest a solution in principle - what name should Macedonia have even if not a EU member state? Because even now there are a lot of countries in the region (Bulgaria excluded) which have recognised Macedonia as a state but not with its constitutional name, and refer to it as FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). Apparently, good neighbourly relations cannot be at stake only in terms of EU membership. Such a solution is needed that could recover trust between Greece and Macedonia in the long run, no matter any membership.

comments
Nick the Greek
14 March 2012 18:20
Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage...only Greeks have proven fraternal, geographic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties to the ancient Macedonians from antiquity.

Alexander the Great was an ancient Greek hero, the Greek King of Macedon responsible for spreading Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture to the farthestmost regions of the then known ancient world.

To be a bona fide Macedonian, one needs to have that Hellenic Ingrediant...without it, you are Not Macedonian, it's as simple as that!
Nick the Greek
14 March 2012 22:05
The ancestry of FYRoM's modern population is mixed although the Slavic element predominates. FYRoM's linguistic and cultural origins can be traced back to the 6th Century A.D. to the settlement of the Slavic tribes into the Greco-Roman Eastern-Roman Empire. It is generally acknowledged that FYRoM's much vaunted "Macedonian" Identity emerged during the upheavals of the late 19th Century, during the lead-up and establishment (1878) of the Bulgarian Exarchate when Slavic Interests in the Balkans were channelled through Bulgaria. FYRoM's so called "Macedonian" Identity had it's beginnings in the Pan-Slavist era, in the minds of Slavdoms mind-architects who envisioned a time when the geographic regions of Macedonia and Thrace would one-day, come under Slavic control.

That FYRoM's disparate peoples were manipulated in the Slavist schools of the old Yugoslavia, conditioned to develop feelings and collective memories for ancient peoples rooted in classical antiquity, where ethnic engineering methods were deployed to ensure the development of a Macedonian consiousness sounds very bizzare, but it did happen and became a reality when FYRoM entered onto the world stage and proclaimed itself in front of a world audiance as a Nation of Macedonians, with ethnic pride and National feelings rooted to the times of Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians from antiquity.

The word Macedon comes from the Greek word 'Makednos' first mentioned in Homer's Odyssey and later by Herodotus who called the Doric tribes 'Makednon Eunos.' The word Makednos means "tall" and akin to something like highlander. Some archaeologists believe that Macedonians were named thus because they were tall mountain peoples. The Greek words Macetia and Macetae were also used to Identify Macedonians.

Greece objects to FYRoM's use of the Macedonian name in the ethnic-racial, National and cultural-linguistic context when it is known that all of these Identity factors apply to Greeks only and Not to FYRoM's ethnically engineered South-Slavs. Greece has expressed concerns and objects to FYRoM's use of the name "Republic of Macedonia" as this is historically incorrect, there has never been, nor ever existed a seperate Macedonian Nation outside of Hellenism and the Greek-Hellenic core, attempting to create one now peopled by NoN-Greeks would be anathema for Greeks, a cause to take-up arms, to redeem Macedonia back into the Greek fold, the Greek domain, into the Greek-Hellenic collective of peoples where it belongs.

Because FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs attempt to present the ancient Macedonian period of history as their own history...be it, with some additions from Slavists and some ommitions from Turanids, they have upset the academic world where classicist historian scholars and academics alike took a dislike to FYRoM's total disregard for their profession.The International academic community have put FYRoM in it's place by backing Greece in the long running name dispute by fully supporting the Greek position. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage, so say professional accredited historians, scholars of repute in the classics!
Nick the Greek
14 March 2012 23:53
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs, a significant number of them are closely related to the Bulgarians...I mean, ethnically, linguistically, culturally and historically, it is a fact, but that does not detract or exclude them carrying Greek elements in their biological make-up. From since the settlement of the Slavic and Bulgar Tribes into the Byzantine Empire, cross fertilization ((by force)(by free will)) occured, people who mixed with Slavs became Slavic, people who mixed with Bulgars became Bulgarian and people who mixed with Greeks became Greek-Hellenic.

The Balkans became a mixed-up place...ethnic-racial fault lines became blured by religion. Orthodox Christians included Greek speakers and Slavic speakers, all of them afilliated to the patriarchate of Constantinople, until Russia decided to resurrect Bulgaria as an Independent Nation in the Balkans.

From since the establishment of the Bulgarian Exarchate, the Common peoples of the Balkans were segregated and seperated along Exarchate and Patriarchate lines where Slavic speakers were alotted into the Bulgarian camp and Greek speakers into the Patriarchate camp.

Peoples that were bi-lingual had to make stark choices, they had to chose either the Slavic path or the Greek path...FYRoM's great grand-fathers chose the Slavic path and the Bulgarian Exarchate.

Had the Russians Not revived Bulgaria...the common peoples of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula would have stayed loyal to the Patriarchate of Constantinople, they would have stayed bi-lingual and gone on to develop a Greco-Slavic culture based on Orthodox Byzantine culture and tradition.

The peoples of FYRoM would have had the best of both worlds...drawing on the best from their Slavic heritage in addition to drawing on the best from the Hellenic heritage they could have had, but missed out on.

To attempt now, a preemptive strike at usurping Greek names, symbols and the heraldry and regalia of Byzantium, from a solidly Slavist backround comes across as sheer and wanton, unrestrained opportunism...attempting to take from the Greeks, elements from their Hellenic cultural heritage in order to present it to the outside world as Slavic.

If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want Greek things, they should go Greek and Re-Hellenize...ReHellenization remains the only way of sharing in the history and heritage of the Greeks!
Nick the Greek
15 March 2012 18:31
The Hellenistic Period of history was named thus after the death of Alexander the Great...he was responsible for spreading Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture to the farthestmost regions of the then known ancient world.

Alexander the Great founded many Greek cities in the east, as a result, Greeks were found living all over the Eurasian continent and in Egypt. The koine dialect become a means and the medium for universal communication, Greek knowledge, wisdom and Ideas exported from Greece and made available, disseminated across the orient and beyond. The Greeks were a race of peoples who's culture influenced others, but Greeks were willing to be influenced, they adopted good Ideas from other cultures and adapted them to further their own interests...the Romans were the same, they adopted the Hellenic culture and Greek Ideas were adapted to further the Roman interest. Romans like Cicero and Julius Caesar actually went to places like Rhodes and Athens to study at the great philosophical schools of the times, they learned about the Macedonian contribution to the cultural heritage of the Greeks.

The point here is this: does FYRoM have the right to insult our intelligence!

FYRoM uses it's much vaunted "ethnic Macedonian" Identity inappropriately, mainly to ridicule and humilate Greeks and Hellenism...for the gratification factor and nothing more!

Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage...it was a Mistake, that American administration of GW Bush made a political blunder back in 2004 when it recognized FYRoM as RoM, that Mistake set the stage for Slavic speaking South-Slavs to acquire a Macedonian Identity they had no real rights to, I mean, No earthly or Natural rights.

Greeks boast fraternal, geographic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties to Macedonia and Macedonians...When FYRoM does Not. The only right FYRoM draws upon, is that one-off right, that one-singular universal right to self-determination which is enshrined in the United Nations human-rights charter, it permits newly emergent peoples and country's to self-determin they way they wish or see fit...FYRoM abused that right, the day it took a Greek-Hellenic name for it's country name, nationality, language and ethnicity when it is known, that all of those Identity factors are all Greek.

FYRoM had just "one" right, and they used that "one" right in a wanton and opportunistic attempt, a preemptive strike, to take from the Greeks, elements from their Hellenic cultural heritage...things which never belonged to FYRoM in the first place. FYRoM has the right to self-determination but it does not have the right to use a neighbours name in an ethnic-racial, national and cultural-linguistic context. FYRoM has rights but it does not have the right to underestimate our collective intelligence.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people...Julius Caesar and the latin-Romans knew that ages ago!
Nick the Greek
15 March 2012 21:08
The ancient-Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity was evidenced in their customs culture and traditions, in their place names where the toponyms could only have been spawned from the Greek-Hellenic language. The etymologies of the people names were all Greek, their religion was the same Greek one, and their calender months were all Greek, plus, Macedonians participated in the Olympic games where their names were recorded for posterity, and above all else, the ancient-Macedonians self-determined as Greek speaking Hellenic people from Northern Greece, they used their self-determination right to self-determine as Greeks and this must be respected.

Ancient-Macedonia was a Greek Kingdom peopled by Greeks from Macedonia in the same manner Ancient-Sparta was a Greek Kingdom peopled by Greeks from Sparta...FYRoM does not have the right to underestimate our intelligence!

FYRoM's Slavic speaking ex-Yugoslavs insist on Identifying as ethnic and racial Macedonians, as one-people with one-language in one-nation of Macedonians...which is a gross distortion of the truth. In reality, FYRoM is a Balkan salad of ethnicities who's Macedonian Identity could only ever be attributed to a regional Identity, a geographic term, not ethnic or racial term, or cultural or linguistic term.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people, this is how they self-determined in the mainstream historical narrative and FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs do not have the right to distort or corrupt that fact...in-fact, FYRoM does not have the right to insult our intelligence.
Nick the Greek
17 March 2012 00:00
FYRoM:The Neighbour from Hell......

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have serious problems with their Identity, they have Church and religion problems with the Church of Serbia, territorial problems with the Albanians, language problems with the Bulgarians and name problems with Greece, over the correct use of the Macedonian name, simply put...Greece does not want the Slavs of FYRoM to use the Macedonian name for their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity when all of those Identity factors are known to be Greek-Hellenic. The Greek-Hellenic peoples are ethnically, culturally, linguistically and geographically far more closer to the ancient-Macedonians than FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs could ever be.

People have the right to name themselves as they wish or as they see fit, but ethics and morals come into play if they intend on abusing that right to name themselves after an existing name, a name which is known to belong to your neighbour. FYRoM wants to call itself Republic of Macedonia and expects the rest of the world to respect that decision when in reality FYRoM has violated the basic principles of common decency and understanding. When one takes into account, that for the past 3000 years, the Northernmost region of Greece has been called Macedonia...awarding FYRoM, a new Slavic country, the same name as that of the neighboring province of Greece, poses a dilemma for the International community!

FYRoM excercized it's right of self-determination freely, to self-determine as a Nation of Macedonians in the ethnic-racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense when this Identity does not bode well with what is known them, about FYRoM and it's disparate peoples...they are South-Slavs, and the Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage, this is the dilemma facing the International community.

FYRoM does have the right to self-determine they way it wishes but that means chose a different name from that of your nearest neighbour...FYRoM does not have the right to underestimate our collective Intelligence.
Nick the Greek
17 March 2012 13:46
Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people. Hard Northern-Greeks who have never strayed from Hellenism. Macedonians stayed true and loyal to the Hellenic cause. Macedonians never swapped, changed-sides, loyalties, affiliations or allegiances, they were born Greek more than Three Millenia ago, and they have stayed Greek up till today...respect to the Macedonians.
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs disrespect all of the above...they mock Macedonians and denigrate Hellenism, and they do it in the full gaze of the modern-Greeks who are forced to watch them take Macedonian things and rubbish them. They use Turanid and Slavist revisionism and pseudo-historical propaganda to take from the Greeks, elements from their Hellenic cultural heritage and present them to the outside world as something NoN-Greek and uniquely their own.
Macedonians never strayed, never changed and never altered their loyalty, their affiliation or their allegiance towards Hellenism and the Hellenic path...FYRoM seeking to alter these historical facts harbours something deep-seated against the Greeks and Hellenism, festering with malice and wanting to show the Greeks just how much damage they can inflict on the modern-Greek National Character.
That bad-blood exists between FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs and Greeks, is a true statement to make...there is a history of wrong-doings from one-side to the other side and visa-versa!
FYRoM's much vaunted Macedonian Identity need not have involved the ancient-Macedonians...FYRoM's South-Slavs could have kept that Macedonian Identity without involving Alexander the Great, simply by placing something in front of their name which clearly distinguishes them from the Hellenic Identity of the ancient-Macedonians from classical antiquity.
FYRoM's actions for two decades, have been consistant with wanting to show the modern-Greeks in bad-light, from bad-mouthing them to ridiculing them, to denigrating them and their Hellenic culture. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs do these things because they can, because they were awarded the Macedonian name back in 2004 by that U.S. administration of GW Bush who was ill-advised to recognize FYRoM as RoM in order to spite the maverick Greeks for their support of Serbia!
When those advisors advised GW Bush to recognize FYRoM as RoM, they committed a political blunder which has gone down in recorded history as such...their names shall always be associated with that ((intentional)(unintentional)) Mistake! It took classicist historians to put politicians in their place. Historian scholars and academics alike value their profession above and beyond the virtues of political expediancy...politicians had to back away from supporting the FYRoM cause which had historical revisionism and historical propaganda as the two main pillars supporting it's very existence. Politicians had to back-away or they would have risked having their integrity and credibility questioned!
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not Macedonians...at least, Not in the Greek sense of that word. Before they became Macedonians they were Southern-Serbs and before that, they were Bulgarians. Before they bacame Orthodox Christians they were Atheist Communists and before that, they were Exarchist Bulgarians. Before they were Exarchist Bulgarians, at least some of them anyway, were Patriarchists loyal to the Patriarch of Constantinople. Before they spoke their newly developed so called Macedonian language, they spoke Bulgarian and before that, Bulgarian again.
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are South-Slavs beyond a shadow of doubt...there was No need for them to have involved Alexander the Great or the ancient-Macedonians into their National history. They could have used their universal right to self-determination properly, and self-determined as New-Macedonians or Upper-Macedonians or Grno-Macedonians or any-Macedonians, but instead, they opted to provoke the Greeks and by extension the International academic community because that provocation brought to the fore FYRoM's pre-planned Slavist historical revisionism and pseuodo-historical propaganda, which, from the out-set had Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity scripted into FYRoM's ethno-genesis story as Slavic speakers and spawned from the Slavic race. Classicist historian scholars were not going to sit and watch FYRoM's Slavist historical revisionism ingress into the mainstream historical narrative so they took action and from the day they banded together to defend and protect the verity of the mainstream historical narrative...FYRoM found itself dejected, abandoned and alone, shoved up a siding and kept at arms length, at a distance until it respects more the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity, the same Identity which has never strayed, altered or changed from the Hellenic original.
Respect to the Macedonians who continue to Vaunt their Hellenic Macedonian Identity in the face of excruciating Slavist revisionism and historical propaganda which set-out to de-Hellenize Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians in order to make them Slavic. I say respect the Macedonians, for they have walked a Million Miles and Never strayed from the Hellenic Path!
Damn FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs for rubbishing Greeks and denigrating their Hellenic culture...Damn every single-one of them.
Nick the Greek
17 March 2012 19:39
No matter how hard FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs try...they cannot leapfrog themselves back to a time in classical antiquity in order to insert themselves into the Myths and legends of Hellas as Slavic speaking ancient-Macedonians when it is known, the Macedonia(n) name is derived from Macedon, the grandchild of Deukalion,(Hesiod's genealogy) the father of all Greeks. Macedonians were Greek speakers and Hellenic people, since Macedon, the ancestor of Macedonians was the brother of Magnes, who was ancestor of the Thessalians, and they spoke the Greek-Hellenic language. That Macedonians were kith and kin to the rest of the Greeks goes without saying, they shared collective memories and expressed them in the Greek-Hellenic language as shared experiances. That Collective memories form the first building blocks of ethnic (awareness) consciousness, where language was the medium of that expression, and the main factor to form ethnic pride and National (feelings) Identity. Macedonians knew they were Greeks when they conversed with other Greeks...when they expressed the same ethnic-pride and National feelings with other Greeks, and when they invoked collective memories and shared experiances with other Greeks.

It should be noted that the original ancient-region of Macedonia covered only the area around Pieria, as mentioned by Hesiod and Thucydides. It was only when Alexander the Greats father, King Philip II ascended to the throne, that the region expanded into Thracian and Paeonian territory. Thracians succumbed to Hellenism ((willingly)(volunatrily)) whereas the Paeonians were allowed to keep their customs, a sign and tradition of King Philips liberal policies after each conquest. From Homer we learn that the Paeonians had their own language and that they fought on the side of the Trojans. They lived in and around the area of Skopje, where FYRoM is situated today, and this is the best reason for FYRoM to adopt the Paeonian Identity for their new country name, nationality, language and ethnicity because it is based on geographic verity and historical verity.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have the right to self-determine as they wish and as they see fit, but when they opted to take the Macedonian name way from the Greeks...they started something toxic between Greeks and Slavs. Macedonians started off as a Greek speaking Hellenic people and they have never strayed from that Hellenic path. The Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage and FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs should respect that.
Nick the Greek
17 March 2012 23:51
For two-decades...FYRoM's revisionist pseudo-historical propagandists perpetuated the Idea that FYRoM is connected geographically, linguistically and culturally to Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity, when in reality it is nothing further from the truth. FYRoM's attempt to adopt Alexander the Great for their own unique, indigenous national hero represents a fictionalization of ancient-European history and a gross distortion of the mainstream historical narrative. In reality FYRoM sits on ancient-Paeonian lands not ancient-Macedon lands, and FYRoM's language is not ethnically connected to the ancient-Macedonian language but rather, it is the closest Slavic language to Bulgarian, disguised alittle with the addition of 5 Serbian letters to give it distance, Slavists call the process "linguistic shift" as if to space it away from Bulgarian proper. That FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are culturally connected to Alexander the Great is also wrong, in reality, they are culturally connected to Slavdom not Hellenism. They
intentionally promote false associations with the ancient peoples of Macedon based on geography, language and culture and it is disturbing the academic and scholarly community who have staked their profession on the academic pursuit of knowledge.

FYRoM's revisionist pseudo-historical propagandists have grossly underestimated the academic communties collective Intelligence who know Alexander the Great to have been born to Greek parents...an Epirote Princess and a Macedonian father. Like all the monarchs before him, Alexander the Great spoke Greek, he worshipped the same Greek Gods and followed the same monthly calender the rest of the Greeks followed. Alexander the Great claimed to be a descendent of Achilles, a declaration of his Greekness and self-determination right, he exported the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture to the farthestmost regions of the then known ancient world, wherever he went, he stamped his Greekness in 33 cities he created in the Eastern world, built in the Greek mold, based on proven Greek-Hellenic city planning.

Could anybody have done more than what he did, to prove their Greekness...Alexander the Great self-determined as the Greek King from Macedonia and this should be respected!

FYRoM does have the right of self-determination...but that means determine after a name different from your neighbours. FYRoM has rights, but FYRoM does not have the right to underestimate our collective intelligence on matters Macedonian!
Nick the Greek
18 March 2012 12:57
When FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs express themselves as "ethnic" Macedonians, who are native and original to the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula...do they express that ethnic-pride more than or less so, than todays modern-Greeks who also express themselves as Macedonians but only in the regional context because for Greeks, "Macedonia(n)" is a geographic term attributed to Northern-Greeks. For Greeks, the "ethnic" tag has been wrongly applied to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs because Macedonian ethnicity does not exist, it would be on par with a Texan from the U.S. claiming "ethnic-Texan" status or a Bavarian from Germany claiming "ethnic Bavarian" status, the absurdity is real and in your face absurd!

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs knowingly and intentionally decided to apply themselves a Macedonian Identity in the full knowledge that Identity belongs to Greek heritage...but worse than this, they made that Identity an ethnic one and a racial one and a cultural-linguistic one, in-fact, they now claim to be a Nation of Macedonians, and boldly claim the history and heritage of Macedonia from it's earliest history to the present, even though they have No real, earthly or natural connections to the lands or to the peoples of Macedonia proper.

FYRoM isults Greeks by de-Hellenizing Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity, suggesting in quasi-official documentation they were not Greeks but something akin to Slavic speakers, like themselves. For FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs, they were taught from a very early age to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs...their scripturs are strewn all-over the Media world where they litter the internet with historical revisionism and pseudo-history.

FYRoM isults Greeks and has done so for two-decades...they insult the academic community also, by disrespecting historian scholars and academics alike who have staked their professional carears on the dissemination of Graeco-Roman classical antiquity, in prestigious and reputable learning institutions, renown for their professionalism and expertise through-out the world on matters Macedonian.

I find it extraordinary that FYRoM has been permitted for two decades, to ridicule Greeks and denigrate Helenism in the way that they do...they erect statues of Alexander the Great in places he never visited or set-foot, they name their streets and highways after Greek names, they name their sports stadiums and arenas after Greek hero's and their airports also. Greeks would normally cheer at a foreign country doing these things to honour ancient-Greeks but FYRoM does it for ulterior motives, they do it to see the Greeks ridiculed and himliated and Hellenism, their culture denigrated, they have spent their lives doing it because they feel they owe the Greeks something for past wrong-doings dating back to the Balkans Wars when the Greeks took from the Turk, their ancient-Macedonians lands.

Greeks lost Macedonia by conquest, at various intervals in the past, historical periods which have been properly recorded, but they have always regained Macedonia back by conquest, and now, Macedonia is back in Greek hands where it belongs and the Greeks aim to defend it and protect it from any external or internal threats. FYRoM's Afrocentric Induced, Turanid Influenced, Slavist Indoctrinated pseudo-scriptures threaten to destabilize the southern Balkans, where Turanids and Slavists have been seen to be working in tandem in order to undermine the regions ethno-racial balance. FYRoM's disparate peoples can double their number, their populace could rise exponentially to an alarming figure if Turanids and Slavists had their way.

That a country in the Central Balkans could pose a threat to the region by upsetting the ethnic-racial balance and social cohesion of an area far outside of it's own National boundaries is very real. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs see Macedonians not just in themselves but in Musulmen from Turkey and beyond...bring them all-together under one Catylist Identity, the Macedonian Identity, Turanid and Slavist propagandist have been working hard to establish and you bring trouble to the Balkans. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs, if awarded the Macedonian Identity, in or out of Western economic or security structures shall make Macedonians out all those who want to self-determine as such, regardless of their religion or ethnic-backround, for Slavs traverse all of these things.

Turanid propaganda is similar to Slavist propaganda...both want to oust the host-culture from the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula, the place which spawned Hellenism. Turanids and Slavists work hard to bring together TurkoSlavic peoples under one Catylist Identity, the Macedonian Identity, for which they have scripted an ethno-genesis story which links Turkics to ancient-Trojans and Slavics to ancient-Macedonians...at the expense and exclusion of the Greeks who's host culture they attempt to erase in favour of their own very unique TurkoSlavic one.

Nick the Greek
18 March 2012 23:15
The Haemus (Balkan) peninsula is the place where Hellenism was spawned, the Hellenic culture, the precursor to Western culture...where the human experience has been recorded for Millenia, where folk memories are long and where the natives bear grudges against other natives or just others in general. The Hellenic culture was the host indigenous culture of the Haemus, but that status is being habitually weakened and undermined by a new hybrid foreign culture, a TurkoSlavic culture which threatens to oust the Hellenic one from it's own homelands.

FYRoM uses it's own state apparatus to promote anti-Hellenic propaganda and historical revisionism...where young Slavic children are taught to hate Greeks and fear Hellenism, where Slavist rogue scholars teach young Slavic children to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs. King Philip of Macedon and his son Alexander the Great become Slavic hero's even though the Slavic language and culture appeared in the Haemus at the top-end of the 6th Century A.D. a Millennium after the death of Alexander the Great.

Greece has valid arguments over FYRoM's inappropriate use of the Macedonian name...Macedonia refers to the historic region of Northern-Greece. Greeks boast fraternal, geographic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties to the region, ties which cannot easily be ignored, but that hasn't stopped FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs from wanting to usurp that name and it's Identity for their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity, Identity factors which do not bode well with what is known about them, that they are Slavic speaking South-Slavs who's ancestors settled the Greco-Roman world during the 6th Century A.D.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people, FYRoM cannot use this Identity in the ethnic-racial sense or cultural-linguistic because it belongs to Greek heritage...FYRoM has rights, but it does not have the right to take us for fools by underestimating our collective intelligence.
Nick the Greek
19 March 2012 21:57
Macedonia:Whats in a Name Anyway......

The name dispute between FYRoM - Greece is quite petty according to some observers who point the finger at Greece for keeping a small and impoverished, newly established Slavic country from joyning the ranks of the International community under it's freely chosen self-determined name of Republic of Macedonia.

Greece argues with some impressive academic backing, that the Macedonian Identity belongs to Greeks heritage, and that only Greeks have fraternal, geographic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties to that name. Greece has gone as far as to accept FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs usage of the Macedonian name but Not in the ethnic sense, or racial sense, or Nationality sense, or cultural-linguistic sense, when it is known that these Identity factors are all Greek-Hellenic.

Whats in a name anyway, some observers argue...it's just a name, but then, so is: Londonderry...or is it Derry ???

Whats in a name indeed: Taiwan is just a name...or is it Chinese Taipei ???

It's just a name right: The Falklands is just a name...or is it Las Malvinas ???

Petty arguing over a name isn't it: The Persian Gulf...or the Arabian Gulf, which one would you go for ???

If FYRoM was awarded the Macedonian name in the ethnic-racial context and in the cultural-linguistic contex, that decision would make a person born in Skopje...Macedonian. Now, does that mean, that a person born in real and proper Macedonia, in Northern Greece, is not allowed to be called Macedonian anymore ???

Sure, the name dispute is petty for some...until that is, it is your name that is being used without your consent, and in ways which undermine your fraternal links to it and your historic rights to it. A dispute over a name may seem petty, trivial, ridiculous and unimportant, but only to the ignorant because only ignorance gives way to expediancy.

FYRoM attempts to usurp the Macedonian name in order to apply it to Slavic speaking peoples who's Serbo-Bulgarian forebears did not know this name when they first settled the Greco-Roman world at the top-end of the 6th Century A.D. FYRoM wantonly appropriates ancient-Macedonian history and apply's the Macedonian name to it's hybrid mixed Serbo-Bulgarian language and to the Paeonian lands it sits on.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people...one day, all Slavic children from FYRoM shall respect that, the day they learn to respect themselves and their Slavic heritage.
Nick the Greek
19 March 2012 23:58
That blood and Dna define ethnicity has been proven false, and what of race, if such a concept exists...from since ancient times, the Greek definition of Nation or Race shifted from the blood element to the genus and speech aspects, where a peoples were defined as one, on the basis of their birth and of their spoken language which loosley translates into this: If you walk like a Greek and talk like a Greek, and the Greeks accept you as Greek, then you are one, in the honorary sense at least. The blood and Dna one carries today, may not reflect faithfully ones ethnic-pride and National feelings which loosely translates into this: There are people today in the Haemus, walking around not knowing, totally oblivious to the fact that they originate from the Hellenes.

The Blood and Dna footprint of the far wandering ancient-Hellenes, left us with some real and measurable evidence in the form of a discernible genetic signature. Modern geneticists have Mapped the genetic footprint of the far wandering Hellenes in all of those places they dwelt during classical antiquity, covering a large area from Sicily and South-Italy, to mainland Greece as far North as mid-Bulgaria and South-Serbia to Western Turkey. Blood and Dna does in fact define Nation and the tribal subdivisions which collectively formed to establish that Nation or that Race of peoples.

When Greeks Hellenized NoN-Greeks...those who accepted Hellenism for their own culture of choice automatically became brother-people and sister-nations, ancient-Paeonians and ancient-Thracians are a case in point, they were Hellenized by Macedonians, and developed a Hellenic consciousness through interaction and shared experiances with Greeks which led to development of common and collective memories express through the medium of common language, that led to the development of common Ideas and the spread of toponyms, inscriptions and peoples names, where the norms, customs, sensibilities, religion, festivals, rituals, codes of behaviour, history, myths and story telling, and social gestures, all of these Identity factors had common Hellenic element.

That ancient-Greeks Hellenized and assimilated NoN-Greeks is a true statement to make, foreign blood and Dna was absorbed into the Hellenic gene pool...Approximately 25 Million Greeks walking around during classical antiquity, if one multiplies the total number of ancient-Greek cities by a population factor of <10k. Greeks absorbed NoN-Greek into their fold and Hellenized them...their choice, and it was the Macedonians that did most of that Hellenizing thing.

It is True: Blood and Dna do not define ethnicity, education does that...or in FYRoM's case, special education bordering ethnic-Manipulation forced conditioning does that!
Nick the Greek
20 March 2012 20:33
Todays Greeks can trace their heritage back directly to the Greco-Roman Byzantines, who traced their heritage back to the Hellenes, the Hellenes traced their heritage back to the proto-Greek tribes, the Myceneans. Modern-Greeks boast fraternal, geographic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties, binding ties, which connect them back to their ancestral forebears. Those chain-links, although fragmented are still discernable, they have a beginning and an end, and they link modern-Greeks to the previous-Greeks in backwards compatible fashion. Three tiers of heritage,(i) Greco-Roman,(ii)Greek-Hellenic ,(iii) proto-Greek Mycenean. The thread of continuity, the Catalyst which binds modern-Greeks to previous Greeks is the Hellenic element. The transfer of inheritance, both cultural and biological, passed-on quite naturally from one generation seemlessly on to the next generation, hence the closeness the modern-Greek feels to his-her forebears and ancestral base.

FYRoM's historical-revisionism is an affront to Classicist scholars, a major insult to their profession. Historians of Graeco-Roman classical antiquity value their profession, enough to warrant them banding together in order to confront FYRoM's pseudo-historical narrative. Academia has noticed the attempts by those Afrocentric-Induced, Turanid-Influenced Slavists from FYRoM, to de-Hellenize Macedonians from the rest of the Greeks, for them, I mean, the academic-scholarly community, it is an affront to their profession and for the Greeks, it is a major insult, for they consider the Macedonian Identity to belong to Greek heritage...with impressive backing from academia.

Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage...only Greeks connect to that Identity fraternally, geographically, culturally, linguistically and historically!

FYRoM treats Hellenism with disdain and modern-Greeks with contempt. FYRoM's Slavists took academia for fools when they underestimated the International academic communities collective Intelligence on Macedonian matters. Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people, this is what is known about Macedonians...Greeks to the core!

FYRoM started something toxic the day they opted to self-determine after a Greek-Hellenic name in the ethnic and racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense, when it is known that all of these Identity factors are all Greek-Hellenic.
Nick the Greek
20 March 2012 23:46
Macedonians closest relatives were the Thessalians, particularly the Magnesians of Thessaly. Magnesians were a sub-tribe of the Macedonians with whom they shared Aeolian ancestry. They spoke a Hellenic-language which had commonalities with Arcado-Cypriot and Mycenean dialects, they worhiped the 12 Gods, the religion of the Macedonians was exactly the same as that of the other Greeks, they followed the same lunar calender with other Greeks and their myths-legends and traditions were those found through-out the Greek-Hellenic world. Macedonians are Greeks from Macedonia or just Northern-Greeks...their Identity belongs to Greek heritage and the Hellenic Republic is morally and legally obliged to keep it in the Greek domain.

Greek National Ideology, from since the establishment of the modern-Hellenic Nation (1829) attached particular importance to Classical antiquity, with Alexander the Great pivotal to the Greek story, his contributions to Greek history printed in the history text-books of the state.

Alexander the Greats Empire, along with the Byzantine Empire gave modern-Greeks reason to revere their common Hellenic heritage...FYRoM seeks to rubbish the Greek story. Slavists took something good like the Classics and converted them into something Vulgar by making Alexander the Great the first Czar of the Slavs.
Nick the Greek
26 April 2012 22:54
Greeks have demonstrated Ownership over the Macedonian name...Theme-Macedonia tells all!

Apparently, Greeks are Not permitted to own the Macedonian name...

...well, If Greeks are not permitted Ownership over the Macedonian name, then at least, recognition of it as a Greek-Hellenic name belonging in the Greek domain.

Posession is 9/10ths of the law!

Recognition is the law!

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia, even when they had to shift it...lock stock and barrel to Theme-Macedonia in Thrace!

You know a name is yours when you take that name with you to a completely different geographical area and use it to rename that place after your very own ethnogenic name...

...Theme-Macedonia!
Nick the Greek
27 April 2012 08:33
The Greeks: Who Are The Greeks of Today...

From since the mythical days of the Argonauts to the present, neither the peninsula of Hellas nor Ionia and the Aegean Islands have been large enough to hold the far-wandering Hellenes.

Greek is a language and a civilization, the Greeks a people and not a population!

Todays Greeks are the descendants of all the peoples who have adopted and retained that language and that civilization from classical times to the present.

Some of these converts to Hellenism were the inhabitants of Asia Minor, others of Thrace and Byzantium, others, of the lands bordering the Black Sea, especially the Crimea.

The name dispute has damaged Greco-Slavic relations, having poisoned the atmosphere between Greeks and Slavs for neigh- on two decades. The harm done thus far is immense and quite observable, more at the common street level than at the intergovernmental level.

The way in which Greeks and Slavs interact nowadays is not the same as it used to be, something is amiss, not quite right, something is definately missing!

Trust...modern Greeks view with mistrust the collective attitude of the Slavic world towards the name issue between FYRoM - Greece.

Greeks for some reason, expected more from their Slavic friends...more in the way of academic-scholarly support, which, if presented to the FYRoM governmant may have ended the name dispute a very long time ago.

The lack of support from Slavic academic fraternities has irked the Greeks, the realization that FYRoM was not alone in formulating a narrative which postulates the seperation of Macedonians from the rest of the Greeks is quite common, and quite endemic through-out Slavic academia.

I say to our Slavic friends...Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia.

Can FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs be permitted to Rubbish This.
Nick the Greek
27 April 2012 20:08
FYRoM's choice of name for their newly established Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity is inapt and unfitting on the basis the Macedonian name does not bode well with Slavic speaking South-Slavs.

The Macedonian name is an ancient-archaic, regional-tribal Greek-Hellenic name, spawned from Hellenism and the Greek-Hellenic language...this is the sole reason, the Macedonian name is unfit, improper and unsuitable for FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs.

Had FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs opted for a proper, more suitable name for themselves and their new country, their place in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula would have been assured.

Ofcourse, FYRoM covets the "Macedonia" name and nothing else will do!

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want to self-determine as Macedonians in the ethnic-racial sense, national sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense...this way, they cover all the vital Identity factors which aid in the usurpation of the Macedonian name in absolute terms.

If country name is Macedonia then Nationality is Macedonian.
If language name is Macedonian then Ethnicity is Macedonian.

Country, Nationality, Language, Ethnicity...they want it all!

Greeks cannot permit NoN-Greek peoples to adopt or usurp the Macedonian name exclusively for themselves, on the basis it is an ancient-archaic, regional-tribal Greek-Hellenic name which has been in constant use in the Greek world from since Millenia.

The Macedonian name is definately a Greek name and Greeks have demostrated Ownership over that name...Theme-Macedonia tells all. You know when a name is yours when you take that name with you to a completely different geographical area.

English place-names differ from French place-names, and Spanish place-names differ from Italian place-names!

Names and Geography: When the Byzantine-Greeks shifted the Macedonian name lock stock and barrel, from it's original location to a completely different location...they were making a statement, they were demonstrating Ownership over the Macedonian name, a decision which evidently was light years ahead of it's time.

The Macedonian name belongs to the Greeks, it belongs in the Greek domain and Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

If Greeks are not permitted Ownership over that name, in todays politically correct world...then at least recognition of it, that it is in-deed and in-fact, a Greek-Hellenic name.

Posession is 9/10ths of the law...Recognition is the law!

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs do not have right to this Greek-Hellenic name, and they must be told that in no uncertain terms!
Nick the Greek
28 April 2012 11:54
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs think they speak Macedonian when in reality they speak Serbo-Bulgarian.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs think they live in real and proper Macedonia when in reality they live in Paeonia and Dardania.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs think they are Macedonians when in reality they are South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs think they are the real and only descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity, when in reality they do not connect to them in the ethnic-racial sense nor in the cultural-linguistic sense.

Clearly, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they think they are or were told they are!

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia...the real and proper Macedonia.

So, how did FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs get to this point:

1...Ethnic Engineering
2...Ethnic Manipulation
3...Slavist Indoctrination
4...Slavist Revisionism and Pseudo-History
5...Slavist School Brainwashing in closed-off society
6...Afrocentric Theory Inducement
7...Turanid Theory Influenced
8...Slavist Theory Indoctrination
9...Bred for Purpose to hate Greeks and Hellenism
10..Kept that Way

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs got to where they are today by a combination of factors!

Initially the Victims and the By-product of Slavdoms desires to creat a Nation of NoN-Greek Macedonians, peopled from Slavic stock...to take from the Greeks their Northern Aegean coastal strip but later, they became the Victims and the By-product of both Turanid-Slavist propaganda, a mixture of revisionism and pseudo-history which saw the coming together of Turkic and Slavist pseudo-historians supporting the Idea that Turkics descend from the ancient-Trojans and Slavics descend from the ancient-Macedonians.

Greeks despair but we No give up!

We shall confront Turanids and Slavists the best way we know how.
Nick the Greek
28 April 2012 15:20
Macedonia:FYRoM's Slavic Name Endings...

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are unable to trace their paternal or maternal ancestors, on the basis their modern surnames were distorted, corrupted by the communist regime of comrade Tito, the Croatian dictator who ruled over the lands of the South-Slavs...YugoSlavia!

Surnames are usually derived from the name of the family progenitor...in FYRoM's case, these were usually names which ended in "OV" if Bulgarian or "IC" if Serbian. For example: Stojanov, Jovanov, Todorov, Stefanov, equates to the son of a Stojan, Jovan, Todor, Stefan, respectively.

From since 1944 - 1945, the Communist party of Yugoslavia essentially forced the predominantly Bulgarian peoples of the newly created Socialist Republic of Macedonia, to add "SKI" (masculine) or "SKA" (feminine) at the end of their surnames in order to weaken their sense of Bulgarian-Identity. For example: Stojanovski, Jovanovski, Todorovski, Stefanovski, equates to the son of a Stojan, Jovan, Todor, Stefan, respectively.

The Slavic ending "SKI" is usually found mainly in Polish surnames, but in Poland it doesn't denote paternal lineage, rather, it denotes place name, place of origin, Town or Village. For example: If you came across the name of Stefanowski or Stefanski in Poland, it would be derived from the name of a Village or Town of Stefanowo or Stefanow...which in turn must have been derived from the name Stefan. Polish Surnames derived from the progenitors name usually end in the "CZYK" or "CZAK" suffix. For example: a Polish surname derived from the name of Stefan would be Stefanczyk or Stefanczak.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs with last (surnames) names ending with "SKI" or "SKA" Georgevska or Georgevski, had these endings introduced only after 1945. Before 1945, all of their surnames had the Bulgarian suffix "OV" or the Serbian suffix "IC" denoting progenitor paternal lineage. There are instances where last names can end in "OVSKI" combining both the Bulgarian and the Polish suffix endings.
http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Balkans/0000002...

extract:

Macedonia had been successively under Greek, Bulgar, and Serb, before Turkish, rule, but the Macedonian Slavs had, under the last, been so cut off both from Bulgars and Serbs, that ethnologically and linguistically they did not develop the characteristics of either of these two races, which originally belonged to the same southern Slav stock, but remained a primitive neutral Slav type.

If the Serbs had been first in the field instead of the Bulgars, the Macedonian Slavs could just as easily have been made into Serbs, sufficiently plausibly to convince the most knowing expert.

The well-known recipe for making a Macedonian Slav village Bulgar is to add -ov or -ev (pronounced -off,-yeff) on to the names of all the male inhabitants, and to make it Serb it is only necessary to add further the syllable -ich,-ov and -ovich being respectively the equivalent in Bulgarian and Serbian of our termination -son, e. g. Ivanov in Bulgarian, and Jovanovit in Serbian = Johnson.(/b)

http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Balkans/0000001... The Evidence is Overwhelming!
Nick the Greek
28 April 2012 18:17
FYRoM's Macedonian adventure has led it where exactly ???

FYRoM must accept the reality...Greeks hold the Seniority position at the hierarchy table boasting fraternal ties, cultural-linguistic connections and historic links to the ancient-Macedonians from classical antiquity. Ties which bind modern-Greeks to ancient-Greeks in perfect, backwards compatible fashion with no conflicts or clashes.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs can not boast these ties, links and connections!

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs can not claim ancestral inheritance to the ancient-Macedonian legacy, on the basis they are a Slavonic peoples...something they deny, or at least some of them deny their Slavic heritage.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs could claim ancestral inheritance to the ancient-Macedonian legacy through their Greek-Hellenic connections...but that would necessitate them to acknowledge the fact that at least some of them, are from partial-Greek ancestry.

And if that were proven, it would still only limit their entitlement to that of partial-Greek inheritance.

I have said this before: If Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity mean that much to our Slavic speaking neighbours...they should make an attempt to Re-Hellenize themselves ((willingly)(voluntarily)) and return back to the fold.

Slavic countries should prepare to release them from the Shackles of Slavdom, FYRoM could then search-out it's Greek-Hellenic roots and ethno-origins, only these ties could bind it to Hellenism and the cultural heritage of the Greeks, without them FYRoM remains Slavic and unconnected to the ancient-Macedonians!

A true dilemma for FYRoM...stay Slavic and lose Alexander the Great or find those Hellenic connections and enjoy what the Greeks enjoy, a cultural-heritage to be proud of.
Nick the Greek
28 April 2012 23:54
Macedonia:Name Dispute Imposed Solution...

FYRoM's right to name itself Macedonia is buttressed by the historical fact that during Roman rule, the latin-Romans named ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands to Macedonia II Salutaris...meaning the Second-Macedonia, the added-on part, the beneficial-Macedonia. The latin-Romans distinguished the real and proper part of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon by naming it Macedonia-Prima, meaning the first and foremost-Macedonia, the original-Macedonia.
In this way, FYRoM does have historic right to name itself Macedonia, but only in the Secondary sense, in the way the latin-Romans named the region...Macedonia-Secunda!
FYRoM invoking it's inalienable right to self-determination as the Republic of Macedonia clashes and conflicts with the rights of Greeks wanting to keep the Macedonian name firmly in the Greek domain. The name was spawned from Hellenism and the Greek-Hellenic language and Greece has recognized historic rights over the ancient-region of Macedon, something which cannot be ignored or dismissed easily.
So how do we consolidate FYRoM's wants with what it is legitimately entitled to claim. FYRoM's rights to the Macedonian name hinge on the political actions of the Romans
when under latin-Roman rule they extended the geography of Macedonia to cover over Paeonian-lands and Dardanian-lands.
 
FYRoM's rights to the Macedonian name cling on to two basic factors, ((b)i(/b)) geographic, and ((b)ii(/b)) historic, courtesy of the Romans excercising governance of the area playing politics with ethnogenic-names and regional-geography.
So, there is a basis on which FYRoM can legitimately claim the Macedonian name. FYRoM can name itself Macedonia but only in the Secondary sense and FYRoM can claim the history and heritage of it's part of Macedonia...but only back to latin-Roman rule.
Ironic isn't it...the Macedonian name FYRoM covets so much has limitations for them.
FYRoM is restricted from claiming Alexander the Great for their ancestor, and limited to how much history they can claim for, distanced from the ancient-Macedonians on the basis of geography and a time continuum spanning almost a Millenia.
(b)Lets be clear(/b)...(b)FYRoM can name itself something-Macedonia, or Macedonia-something! If FYRoM cannot find something suitable, them Macedonia-Secunda should be imposed as a means to end the name dispute legitimately with a basis rooted in historical verity(/b).
The Greeks were right to defend the cultural-heritage!
Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia. The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain and Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage.
FYRoM's claims to Macedonia, the Macedonian name and Macedonian history must not infringe on the Greek-Hellenic componants of it.
If FYRoM sticks to the rule and the formula above...the name dispute ends in an instant, at a stroke and the Balkans can move on!
 
 

 
Nick the Greek
29 April 2012 12:55
The Greeks are a people, not a population. People of the same speech and of the same genus. A Nation of Hellenes who can trace their history and their ancestral forebears back to classical antiquity and beyond. The Greeks scattered far and wide from since antiquity left there mark wherever they settled. There was never one-singular country called Greece in ancient times, there were no countries with fixed borders during ancient times, there were however, many Greeks inhabiting many different City-States and ancient-Kingdoms and they were spread across a vast area stretching from Iberia (Spain) in the West to Colchis (Georgia) in the East and beyond.

If there were countries during ancient times, then Greece would look like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmaps...

This is for our Turkic and Slavic neighbours who are new in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula. When I say new, I actually mean newcomers...both Turkics and Slavics are not native peoples to the Haemus.

Todays Greeks face a threat from these two groups of peoples!

Both Turkics and Slavics seek to rewrite the ancient-history of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula. Both want to script themselves into the myths and legends of Hellas, not as Turkics or Slavics...but as ancient-Trojans and ancient-Macedonians respectively. Turanid pseudo-historians egg-on the Slavist pseudo-historians and the Slavists egg-on the Turanids, their pseudo-scriputures litter the Internet in the full gaze of the International community.

Turkey remains FYRoM's staunchest supporter with many Turks believing FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are the only Macedonians that have right to claim the history and heritage of Macedonia.

From since they first settled the Greek world, the Avaro-Hunnic, Bulgaro-Slavic tribes and then later, the numerous eastern-asiatic, oriental Turkistani tribes...the Greeks have been swamped and surrounded by their presence.

Greeks do their best to exist in their own homelands but Greeks cannot prosper there, Greeks cannot progress or go forward with it's current set of neighbours...surrounded by Greek-hating TurkoSlavic peoples hell-bent on altering the regions demographic, and history and heritage, to reflect their own TurkoSlavic presence there as if it were native and original to the Haemus.

Unlike our European cousins...Greeks live next to primitive Greek-hating TurkoSlavic peoples who torch Greek soil, and flood Greek soil with economic-migrants when Turkey is a power-house of commerce and trade, they still find excuse to flood Greece with Afro-Asiatic Musulmen, so called economic-migrants.

The Greeks are a people, they are not a population...people of the same speech and of the same genus.

There are mind-architects out there that seek to make Greeks a population...to increase (double) the population of Greece by flooding Hellas with NoN-Greeks.
Nick the Greek
29 April 2012 20:47
Alexander the Great was the Greek King of Macedon...he ruled over the ancient-Kingdom of Macedonia in Northern Greece.

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia.

Macedonia...altered in size and changed it's shape through out the ages, according to the ruling entity of any given period of history.

Macedonia started off as a Greek Kingom:

1...The ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...under Greek Rule
2...Provincia Macedoniae.............under latin-Roman Rule
3...Dioecesis Macedoniae.............under latin-Roman Rule
4...Macedonia-Prima..................under latin-Roman Rule
5...Macedonia-Salutaris..............under latin-Roman Rule
6...Macedonia-Secunda................under latin-Roman Rule
7...Theme of Macedonia...............under Greco-Roman Rule
8...Vilayet of Selanik...............under Ottoman-Turk Rule
9...The ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...under Greek Rule

Greeks lost Macedonia to the latin speaking Romans through conquest, but Greek were there during Roman Rule. The Romans extended the size and shape of the ancient-Kingdom to cover over ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands. The latin-Romans divided for administrative purposes, the now enlarged and extended Macedonian geographic region and named those administrative districts acordingly.

As can be seen by the Illustration above...the Romans kept the original ancient-Kingdom of Macedon seperate and distinct by naming it Macedonia-Prima, meaning the first and foremost Macedonia in contrast to the extended parts which the Romans named Macedonia II Salutaris, meaning the add-on parts or the beneficial parts.

The latin-Roman Empire gave way to the Greco-Roman Empire and Macedonia was now back in Greek hands once more when Avaro-Hunnic tribes and Bulgaro-Slavic tribes started to settle the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula.

Incursions from the Bulgaro-Slavs caused the Byzantine Greco-Romans to move and shift the peoples of the Empire to a safe-haven in Thrace...they took the Macedonian name with them and named the now safe military district in Thrace to Theme-Macedonia. This action demonstrated Ownership over the Macedonian name, an executive decision which was evidently light-years ahead of its time.

So after keeping Macedonia safe from Bulgaro-Slavic excruciations, the Byzantines ultimately lost-out to the eastern-asiatic, oriental Musulman-Turks who came to Europe and stayed there for nigh-on 400 years, converting the mighty Byzantine Empire, a Civilization and a bastion of Greek thought sapience and wisdom into a waste land...the Mehmetin Turk coverted the best part, the most enlightened and the most wealthiest part of Europe into the poorest and most Illiterate part of Europe in just a short space of time, his governance over the region.

The Turk took something from away the European population, their ability to distinguish themselves, who they really are and from where they really come from...but for the Greeks, they have always known their roots and ethno-origins!
Nick the Greek
29 April 2012 21:53
Macedonia:But Which Macedonia

Macedonia started off as a Greek Kingom:

1...The ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...under Greek Rule
2...Provincia Macedonia..............under latin-Roman Rule
3...Dioecesis Macedonia..............under latin-Roman Rule
4...Macedonia-Prima..................under latin-Roman Rule
5...Macedonia-Salutaris..............under latin-Roman Rule
6...Macedonia-Secunda................under latin-Roman Rule
7...Theme of Macedonia...............under Greco-Roman Rule
8...Vilayet of Selanik...............under Ottoman-Turk Rule
9...The ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...under Greek Rule

Which Macedonia does FYRoM actually lay claims to!

Do the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM really believe they can swing it, I mean, can they persuade and convince the International community to look on them as the modern descendants of the ancient-Macedonian Kingdom when it is known by classicist scholars and academics alike that the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon was a Greek speaking Hellenic Kingdom.

Do the Slavic speakers of FYRoM really and honestly believe they can swing it!

The best FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs can hope for is linkage to Macedonia-Secunda...Item 6 on the list above, on the basis of ancient-geography.

FYRoM connects to Macedonia courtesy of the fact they reside on ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands the latin-Romans renamed to Macedonia-Secunda.

What FYRoM cannot do is this:

Link themselves or connect themselves to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...not by geography, not by language and not by culture!

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks can link themselves and connect themselves to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...through fraternal ties, cultural-linguistic ties and recognized historic ties, in perfect backwards-comaptible fashion without clashes and without conflicts.

FYRoM's Macedonian journey is nearing the end!
Nick the Greek
2 May 2012 19:28
FYRoM's Slavic speaking population can trace their history back to the Socialist Republic of Macedonia, set-up in 1945 in what was then, the Yugoslav Federation...before that, they could be traced back to the Vardar region of South-Serbia which was still within the Yugoslav Federation, and before that, to Serbia proper, where they were known as just Southern Serbs.

Before this juncture, FYRoM's Slavic speaking population can be traced back to the Ottoman Turkish Empire and before that, to the Byzantine Greco-Roman Empire...before that, to the Serbian Kingdom of Stephan Dusan and before that, to the Bulgarian Empire.

Before this juncture, FYRoM's Slavic speaking population could be traced back the settlements of the Slavic tribes in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula during the 6th Century AD.

It could be argued that FYRoM's Slavic speaking population could trace remnants of their history further back, back to the Avaro-Hunnic Incursions of the Greco-Roman world. Slav Overlords, who along with the Bulgars ushered in waves of Slavic tribes into the Byzantine Empire.

It could also be argued that FYRoM's Slavic speaking population could trace remnants of their history even further back, back to the Greco-Romans who intermingled, and possibly cross-fertilized with the Avaro-Hunnic, Bulgaro-Slavic newcomers.

It could also be argued that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Macedonians...but that argument does not hold-up to what we know about them through the mainstream historical record.

Clearly, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonian they think they are or were told they are!

Macedonians...YES, but only in the regional sense, courtesy of their Avaro-Hunnic, Bulgaro-Slavic ancestral forebears having settled a geographic-region in the Haemus named Macedonia II Secunda by the latin-Romans.

Macedonians...YES, but not in the Greek sense of that word.

Macedonians...YES, but not in the ethnic-racial sense, nor in the national sense, and neither in the cultural-linguistic sense.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs use a regional-geographic Identity for all the wrong reasons...those reasons offend Greece and the Greek-Hellenic peoples because the Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain and Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage.
Nick the Greek
3 May 2012 19:34
FYRoM's political leadership seek to monopolise the name Macedonia when that name forms a significant part of Greek geography, and a more important part of Greek history. The culture and Identity of the ancient-Macedonians has always been associated with Greeks and Hellenism so it surprises the Intellectual academic community when a newly emergent South-Slavic country in the Balkans attempts to usurp the Macedonian name with feeble arguments of entitlement.

FYRoM's actual entitlement to the Macedonian name is based tenuously on geography and nothing much else.

The latin-Romans incorporated ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands into a more enlarged and extended Macedonian-region, which they named accordingly to Macedonia II Salutaris, which means the Second-Macedonia or the added-on, beneficial-Macedonia, in dark contrast to Macedonia-Prima, which the Romans kept strictly distinct in order protect the geography of the ancient-Greek Kingdom of Macedon.

Clearly then...FYRoM as a newly established country does not connect to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in the way Slavists wanted it to, they simply overlooked or they did not cater for the geographic and administrative differences the latin-Romans applied and put into place governing the greater-Macedonian region. FYRoM's revisionist pseudo-historians were taken by surprise on the ancient-geography aspect of their claims to the Macedonian name.

FYRoM's claims of entitlement to the Macedonian name did not stretch to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon on the basis FYRoM is situated on Macedonia II Salutaris...a different administrative region to Macedonia-Prima, which represented geographically the ancient-Greek Kingdom of Macedon.

FYRoM's precarious claims to the Macedonian name are based soley on geography, latin-Roman geography...Macedonia II Salutaris, which is different to Macedonia-Prima for the reasons stated above.

At this juncture, FYRoM's Slavist pseudo-historians made a more serious error of judgement, they overlooked or simply did not cater for the possibility...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs may be more connected to the ancient-Paeonians and the ancient-Dardanians than to ancient-Macedonians on the basis of geography.

FYRoM's Slavist pseudo-historians have created a political and historical quagmire for themselves because from here, things get worse for them!

If Slavists are right, if we are to believe them, that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are native and Indigenous to their lands, having always been there and never moved from since classical antiquity and before...that would simply make them Paeonians and Dardanians, not Macedonians.

FYRoM's Macedonian journey stops at the border between the ancient-Greek Kingdom of Macedon...Macedonia-Prima, and Macedonia II Salutaris. The latin-Romans distinguished between the two on the basis they played politics with the names and the geography of the places they conquered and ruled-over.

When the latin-Roman Empire ceased and gave way to the Greco-Roman Byzantine Empire...the Greco-Romans went further, they played politics with the name and the geography of Macedonia by demonstrating complete and Overall Ownership Over the Macedonian name, by shifting it, to a completely different geographic region, Theme-Macedonia tells all!

Evidently, FYRoM's Slavist pseudo-historians made several serious errors of judgment. In their pseudo-scriptures, they simply overlooked or simply did not cater for the simple things...the fine detail in those historic texts which Slavists simply could not interpret in the way Greeks could or the Romans could.
Nick the Greek
3 May 2012 22:40
Serious Slavist errors of judgement, when Interpreting ancient Latin or Greek historical texts can be evidenced in the way they Interpreted the ancient-Greek words "varvaros" transliterated to "barbarian" to mean "Slav" when the Greeks used that word simply to describe peoples with uninteligable speech.

Macedonians spoke a Northern-Greek dialect which was not easily understood by the more refined Southern-Greeks...Athenians in particular.

The Greek "varvaros" word, did not have the same meaning as todays wild savage barbarian modern word.

Another example of Slavist crudeness of judgement interpreting ancient-Latin or Greek historical texts, was when they took the "xanthos" word, meaning light fair hair, to mean "Slav" on the basis Slavs had blond hair and blue-eyes.

Serious Slavist errors of judgement led to their pseudo-historians intepreting ancient historical texts wrongly, evidenced in the way they applied the "varvaros" term and "xanthos" term to mean pure Slavs.

Slavists pseudo-hisrtorians took the blond haired, blue-eyed barbarian terms to mean wild savage Slavs...because Slavs had always been known by those attributes.

Because the ancient-Greeks described the ancient-Macedonians as a Northern people, with blond hair and of uninteligable speech...Slavists interpreted this depiction to mean "Slavs" on the basis Slavs were Northern, wild savage type people with blond hair.

And on that basis...Slavist pseudo-historians awarded FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs with the Macedonian label. The problem we have here is this:

Blondism in Southern-Slavs does not match the blondism rates in say Russian Slavs or Polish Slavs!

Even on this matter...Slavists failed miserably, again, one could put it down to serious errors of judgement!
Nick the Greek
5 May 2012 17:26
The FYRoM - Greece name issue can come to a definative end on the basis of a comprehensive conclusion to the dispute if we utilize the principled approach of fairness and reliability.

We need to study the history of the different peoples and cultures which formed part of the different states in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula during different historical periods.

If we did that, I mean, use fairness and reliability...we would quickly arrive at the conclusion that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they say they are.

It would be fair to say that FYRoM is Paeonia and Dardania, and not Macedonia...on the basis of reliable latin-Roman administrative Maps.

Once this is understood, the geography lesson ends and our attentions are then focused on the peoples that reside on those territories.

It would be fair to say that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Slavonic peoples on the basis of reliable population statistics, census data and ethnographers reports which can be found archived in the libraries of world bodies and global institutions.

Once this is understood, the ethnic-racial and cultural-linguistic lesson ends and our our attentions are then drawn to the history of FYRoM's peoples.

It would be fair to say that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs can trace their history back to the settlement of the Slavonic tribes into the Greco-Roman Byzantine Empire at the top-end of the 6th Century AD on the basis of reliable entries recorded into the mainstream historical narrative. The reliability factor here must be viewed within the framework of historical records serving academia well, within the context of, before and after the Slavic arrivals into the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula.

Once this is understood, the history lesson of the peoples of FYRoM ends and our attentions are then focused on FYRoM's claims to a Macedonian Identity rooted in classical antiquity!

It would be fair to say that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs cannot link themselves to the Macedonians from antiquity on the basis of reliable academic feedback from the classicist historian Euegene Borza, who said this:

"Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and FYRoMacedonians, cannot establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly emi-gres in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity."

Eugene Borza also said this:

"The FYRoMacedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians."

Even on the basis of the principled approach, utilizing fairness along with reliability...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are simply not justified in wanting to usurp the Macedonian name for their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity.

The damage FYRoM's revisionist pseudo-historians have caused the modern-Greeks is immense but the damage they have done to Greco-Slavic relations is immeasurable at the people level!
Nick the Greek
6 May 2012 23:13
Macedonia is not just the ancient-Greek Kingdom anymore, it is much more than that. From since the latin-Roman Empire conquered Macedonia back in 146 BC, the ancient-Kingdom went through many changes. Over the centuries, the Romans enlarged and extended original Macedonia to cover over ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands. They named the extended parts "Macedonia II Salutaris" in order to distinguish the add-on parts from "Macedonia-Prima," the original ancient-Greek Kingdom. The boundaries of Macedonia have changed considerably over time, but nowadays the region includes parts from four Balkan countries:

1...Greece holds 51% of the greater-region and 99% of the ancient-Greek Kingdom.

2...FYRoM holds 38% of the greater-region and 1% of the ancient-Greek Kingdom.

3...Bulgaria holds 9% of the greater Macedonian region.

4...Albania holds 1% of the greater Macedonian region.

FYRoM is more Paeonia and Dardania...than it is Macedonia!

We are told that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are native and Indigenous peoples of the land who Slavicized, by adopting the culture and traditions of the Slavic tribes that entered the Greco-Roman world for the first time at the top-end, of the 6th Century AD.

At this juncture, things get a little hazy-blurry because (i) If they are truly native and original, Indigenous and autochthonous NoN-Greek peoples of the land...that would simply make them a mixture of Paeonians and Dardanians, not Macedonians, and (ii) When they Slavicized, at the top-end of the 6th Century AD...there were No Macedonians around during this time, no Spartans, no Athenians, no Corinthians, for all of these ancient-tribal Identities had ceased to be used in favour of just one-common supranatioanal Identity the Byzantine Eastern Romans used collectively as Romaios (singular) or Romioi. The Slavs called them Rimyani!

The dilemma facing FYRoM is this:

1...The Indigenous route really only entitles FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs to claim a Paeonian - Dardanian Identity, and not the Macedonian Identity they covet!

2...The Slavicization aspect of their ethno-genesys story really only limits their options, for it is known, from the long established mainstream historical narrative...Slavs settled the Greco-Roman world at the 6th Century AD when the Paeonians and Dardanians were either Hellenized or Romanized Centuries before the arrival of the Slavs and ancient-Macedonians were simply not around during this time. The more we analyze FYRoM's claims to an ancient-Macedonian Identity rooted in classical antiquity...the more we find holes and discrepancies in their ethno-genesys story.

Evidently, FYRoM rejects any notion they are from Paeonian or Dardanian stock, which leaves us with a tricky question to solve.

Question: Who was it exactly, the Slavs Slavicized when they settled the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula at the top-end of the 6th Century AD.

The answer ofcourse is very simple: The Slavs Slavicized their Bulgar Overlords along with some remnants of the local Indigenous element, which in this case, was the Byzantine Greco-Romans...Greek speaking Eastern-Romans for want of a better term!
Nigel Harlington-Grove
27 May 2012 16:20

Pardon? A Conflict for a Name?
FYROM'S DISPUTE WITH GREECE REVISITED
Demetrius Andreas Floudas

http://www.intersticeconsulting.com/documents/FYROM.pdf

Read!
*
Nigel Harlington-Grove
27 May 2012 16:21
Nick the Greek
4 June 2012 16:03
The problem between FYRoM and Greece is this: Only one of them has legimate rights to the ancient-Hellenic legacy...which includes Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. Macedonia constitutes a large part of Greek geography and a substantial part of Greek history, hence the name Macedonia and it's derivatives are very important for Greeks.

Macedonians are Northern-Greeks not Southern-Slavs...but that small detail did not stop the Slavists from attempting a preemptive strive at taking from the Greeks, the Macedonian name and all of it's Hellenic elements in order to place those elements into the Slavic domain, for Slavdom.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs base their Identity on two factors: (i) language name, and (i) country name. The way in which these two crucial Identity factors were aquired remain dubious and open to scrutiny...so let us examine both:

Language is just one of the main Identity factors which determine ethnicity. If I altered the name of FYRoM's language to Serbo-Bulgarian, that would make them ethnic-Serbo-Bulgarians by default...get it!

If I then altered the name of their newly created country to Serbo-Bulgaria, that would make their Nationality Serbo-Bulgarian by default...get it!

Nationality usually follows the country name and Ethnicity usually follows the language name...get it!

This is how Slavists made Macedonians out of FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs. They renamed their Serbo-Bulgarian language to Macedonian-language, and renamed the Vardar province of South-Serbia to Socialist Republic of Macedonia.

Slavists renamed their language and geography to fit both of those ethnicity and Nationality requirements.

If my country is called Republic of Macedonia...my Nationality becomes Macedonian by default!

If my language name is called Macedonian...my ethnicity becomes Macedonian by default!

Shrewed and Deceptively clever...this is how Slavists duped the common-peoples of Serbia and Bulgaria to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

Greeks despair but we No give-up. We shall continue to point out to them that: If they are native and Indigenous, original and autochthonous to the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula, and...

1...If they were born in Macedonia-Secunda, that would make them desendants of Paeonians and Dardanians.

2...If, however, they were born in Macedonia-Prima, that would make them descendants of Greeks.

3...If they were born in Theme-Macedonia, that would make them descendants of Greco-Romans, Byzantines.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs tell us that they evolved into who they are today...but evolution has a starting point, and we know: The original Macedonians were a Greek speaking Hellenic people. They evolved into modern-Greek speaking Hellenic people.

So where exactly do FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs fit into this evolutionary path.

In reality, they not Macedonians but Serbo-Bulgarians, primed and conditioned to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

Ethnically manipulated...Socially engineered to oust the host-culture from the Haemus peninsula. Slavists Indoctrinated Serbo-Bulgarians to think of themselves as Macedonians in order to install their own unique Serbo-Bulgarian culture in a region of the world known to have spawned Hellenism.
Nick the Greek
9 June 2012 12:59
With Bulgaria issuing Bulgarian-Passports to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs, the ones ofcourse that can prove Bulgarian heritage...It kind of makes a Mockery out of FYRoM's claims to being a Nation peopled by Macedonians who espouse to having Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians for their ancestors.
With approximately 70 Thousand Bulgarian-Passports issued thus far, the figure may rise to reach 300,000 in just a short space of time...leaving FYRoM in the precarious position of having 20% of it's so called Macedonian population declare themselves Bulgarian with papers to prove it.
The Bulgarian camp in FYRoM competes with the surreptitious-Grcoman camp, both vye for supremecy to win the hearts and minds of the common peoples...who see themselves as Macedonians and ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.
When things get pushed too far towards the Hellenic side...the Bulgarian camp pulls FYRoM back to the Bulgarian side, and this has been going-on in FYRoM from since it gained it's Independence in the most dubious and Indeterminate way possible.
FYRoM's Identity is based on the name of their language and on the name of the land on which they reside on, but even here, things remain dubious and Indeterminate on the basis: Their language is 5 letters short from proper Bulgarian but Slavist philologists baptized it Macedonian language in the autumn of 1944. The lands FYRoM sits on today are properly called Paeonia and Dardania by their ancient names, but Slavists in the Communist era Yugoslavia named the land Soacialist Republic of Macedonia.
There are Bulgarians in FYRoM that know they hail from Bulgarian stock...they want to call themselves Macedonians in the geographic sense, to cement the fact that Bulgarians have been living in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula next to Greeks for nigh-on 1,400 years.
There are Serbians in FYRoM that know they hail from Serbian stock...they want to call themselves Macedonians in the geographic sense to cement the fact that Serbians have been living in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula next to Greeks for nigh-on 1,400 years.
The Slavic peoples of FYRoM hail from Serbo-Bulgarian stock, that fact, is reflected in their language, in their manner and in their traditions. They are the Southernmost Slavs to the Greco-Roman world, and as such were Influenced by it...deeply.
That FYRoM's Serbo-Bulgarians have developed feelings and collective memories for ancient-Greeks has more to do with Slavist based education than actual historical or archaelogically based evidence.
So they are Macedonians regionally and geographically but from Slavic heritage...the closest Slavs to Greeks, I can see that! They are not Macedonians in the Greek sense of that word and they should see that, without the Greeks having to point it out to them.
Alexander the Great was the Greek King of Macedon. That Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia is a fact of history, proven by archaelogy...both disciplines compliment each other.
To prove their attachment to Macedonia...the Slavs of FYRoM resorted to a dirty war, a propaganda war to seperate modern-Greeks from ancient-Greeks, and to seperate Macedonians from both. FYRoM made Greece and a whole Nation of Hellenes their enemy.
Two John Smiths could live in peace, next door to each-other, but if one John Smith decides to usurp the Identity of the other one...that would be called Identity theft.
Greeks can live in peace, next door to Slav-Macedonians on the principles of good neighbourly relations and on the basis of mutual respect for the others ethnic-racial, cultural and linguistic presence in the Haemus peninsula, homelands of the Greeks from since Millenia.
 
 
 

 
Nick the Greek
16 August 2012 08:06
Macedonians are the Greeks of Northern-Greece who still live in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...only these people have the right to call themselves Macedonians.

There are Macedonians elsehwere in this world...the only common attribute between them is that their ancestral forbears at one time or another, in the near or distant past hailed from that place.

Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

Go tell the Abduls Mehmetins and Gorans from FYRoM who try so hard to alter the demographics of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula by changing Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs.

Slavist Makedonists from FYRoM cannot undo the Past simply by rewriting it.
TRUTH
1 December 2012 22:19
****It seems futile to respond to neo-Nazis
- This statement comes at a time that marks exactly one hundred years after stepping Greek occupying foot in Aegean Macedonia.Proof of this document my claim is Greek King George I of October 1912,called Decree occupation. So, when after the Balkan Wars, Turkey wasdefeated by an alliance between Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania,Montenegro, Greece's King Declares "occupation" Aegean Macedonia. Not"release" or "return" but "occupation", which means that Greece hadnever considered the territory to Macedonia.

Meddelande: BLOODY      GREEK      STATE.              Liar....grandfather….Papoulias.

The Greeks had in 1912 and how Macedonians in those 51% of Macedonia Bloody Greece.
Change Macedonian toponyms.
Change Macedonian names and surnames.
Ethnic cleansing of Macedonians from 1912 to 1949.
Expulsion of Macedonians from their own homes.
Forced assimilation.
How many villages burnt and many people killed.
Change names and graves and wiped icons in the churches.
Hot oil in the mouth of the old people who do not speak Greek
How many people in 1912 from Turkey brought in Macedonia        620.000 people  bis  1936 Jahre.
Why stare empty houses Macedonians and may be returned only if the sign that the Greeks.Is that EU democracy deadly Greece.
Is it more important Alexander three thousand years or people Macedonians were majority in the entire country under the empire.
Why cheat demokratische  world bloody Greece.
Bloody Grcijo disgusting politicians.
Othergreat men except fiction Macedonian Alexander have.         Macedonians have the Jane Sandanski and Gotse Delchev Misirkov vonPELA  ….Pando Kljashev Lazar Poptrajkov Chakalarov Nikolov....many…..Celebrities are just killers Andartes from Crete who wroteletters to their families here in Macedonia not Greeks.
Height wrote Book Greek of Albanian origin Litoksou Greek anti-Macedonian Struggle.

Outside the EU democratic undemocratic Greece.

….SHOULD…genocide..to..suit..bloody..Greece  and not blocked by lies and blackmail.
Nick the Greek
5 January 2013 14:32
Dorians by origin and by blood, by speech and by genus, the main Identity-factor applicable to the Macedonians of lore was the Hellenic one. The Slavic-peoples of FYRoM must be encouraged to learn that the ancient-Macedonians did belong to term Hellenic, in all of it's meanings, and that no other Identity-term can be applicable them - not the Illyrian one, and certainly not the Thracian one, on the basis: Macedonians are the Greeks that Hellenized the Thracian-tribes. The Epirot-Illyrian origins of Alexanders mother were as Hellenic on an equilibrium with his fathers side.

It must be stressed...The Macedonians of lore did belong to the Hellenic world and culture - to assign them a different Identity would be a travesty of what was writen about them in the mainstream historical narrative.

De-Hellenizing the Macedonians of lore and distancing modern-Greeks from them is what FYRoM does in it's learning institutions. Schools colleges and universities in that country are forbidden to use the Hellenic-term directly next to the Macedonian one...the two are kept seperate so that the children, pupils and students there do not make the connection between Macedonians and Hellenism.

FYRoM has used the country's state-apparatus to control what can and cannot be taught there. FYRoM has used state-sponsored propaganda directly, in it's classrooms and learning-institutions to promulgate the Idea that the Rosetta stone middle text inscriptions reveal the long-lost language of the ancient-Macedonians before they adopted koine, the lingua-franca as they call it. For the rest of the learned-world - the Rosetta stone middle text inscriptions were demotic Egyptian, but in FYRoM, they were coerced to learn something different.

The Macedonians of lore were as Hellenic as the Spartans of lore - Dorians to the core...Greeks by origin and by blood, by speech and by genus.

Propaganda can work for you or against you...in FYRoM's case - it works against!
Nick the Greek
5 January 2013 14:33
In an effort to establish FYRoM a unique National-Identity of it's own centered around the Macedonian-name, FYRoM's mind-architects had to de-Hellenize Macedonia first. The process of de-Hellenization brought about the conditions for de-Slavicization also.

At every attempt made to de-Hellenize the ancient-Macedonians - it was pointed out to FYRoM's mind-architects that Macedonians were not Slavic.

The de-Hellenization process initiated to strip the ancient-Macedonians from their Greek-Hellenic Identity created the conditions for the de-Slavicization of the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM.

Slavists from FYRoM used revisionism and pseudo-historical propaganda to make Macedonians out of South-Slavs, but the process took on a momemtum of it's own. The forces of de-Hellenization ended-up being balanced-out by the forces of de-Slavicization.

In an effort to make Macedonians NoN-Greek...it was necessary to make them NoN-Slavic also!

In FYRoM today, one can stand next to an ancient-Greek statue balanced-out by a medievil Slavic Bulgarian one!

The ultimate affect makes people dizzy, it makes outsiders think of the place as a kind of disneyland paradise...a cheap and chearful Theme park where FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are supposed to enjoy their new found unique, kitch-style National-Identity.

Only in FYRoM can one confuse the Greek Identity of the ancient-Macedonians with the South-Slavic one attributed to the peoples there.

Big lessons have been learned - No amount of propaganda can erase FYRoM's Slavic Identity...by the same token, No amount of historical-propaganda can erase the Greek-Hellenic Identity of the ancient-Macedonians.

FYRoM's Identity is Slavic, an unerasable Identity, an Identity for life...not to be confused with the Greek Identity of the Macedonians from antiquity.
Nick the Greek
5 January 2013 14:35
Propaganda can work for you or against you...in FYRoM's case it works against, see here:

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) This is how Slavists from FYRoM see Macedonia - they see Greek territory belonging to them and Slavdom...rather than to Greeks and Hellenism.

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to Slavist revisionism and pseudo-history.

(link to www.makedonika.org) A. Arnaiz-Villena - K. Dimitroski A. Pacho - J. Moscoso -
E. Go´mez-Casado - C. Silvera-Redondo - P. Varela - M. Blagoevska - V. Zdravkovska - J. Martý´nez-Laso

FYRoM used Genetic Propaganda - state sponsored, utilizing Spanish Haematologist to doctor the results of a unique genetic test which placed Greek genes in with an African cluster...the test was so unique it could not be replicated anywhere else in Europe. The names of those who took part are known to us!

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to badmouth and belittle Greeks - Greece and Hellenism.

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) FYRoM's children pupils and students are taught that the latest scientific genetic research conducted by the University in Madrid, Spain concluded that the Macedonians are direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians, while the Greeks are unrelated to European origins and to the "older" Mediterranean substratum to which Macedonians belong to.

(link to www.makedonika.org) FYRoM sponsored rigged genetic test which teaches young Slavic children to think of themselves as direct descendents of the famous Macedonians from antiquity.

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to the wanton Indoctrination of whole generations of Slavic children.

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) The Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia, and the Macedonian minorities in Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania, continue to proudly call themselves "Macedonians" and consider the "Slav" label an insult and racial slur.

FYRoM's children pupils and students are taught to consider the Slav label as something insulting.

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to the destruction of their own children pupils and students.

Propaganda works in two ways - for you or against you. In FYRoM's case it is clearly working against...see here:

(link to www.historyofmacedonia.org) FYRoM Propaganda Website
set-up to badmouth Greece and to assassinate the National-Character of the modern-Greek - dedicated to the complete de-Hellenization of Macedonia...only then, when that aim has been achieved can the Slavs of FYRoM start to claim Macedonia for Slavdom. But things have not gone the way Slavists planned!

Something Slavists did not cater for, was the way their revisionism and pseudo-history took on a momemtum of it's own. In what is now seen as a completely natural process - the processes that went into de-Hellenizing Macedonians have been balanced-out by processes that de-Slavicize them.

The forces that de-Hellenize Macedonians have been cancelled-out by the forces that de-Slavicize them...making FYRoM a surreal place - a disneyland wonderland, a Theme-Park where ancient-Greeks things get mixed-matched and blurred with Slavic things.

FYRoM's Propaganda works against FYRoM - an unforeseen and uncatered for phenomenon which occured naturally - under completely natural conditions. The forces which attempted to de-Hellenize Macedonians created the conditions to de-Slavicize them also!
Gianni
13 January 2013 14:48
Macedonia is a new formed country and if you looked the past you'll see that there isn't that kind of country in history it is just a geographical territory, given name. The people there speak mostly Bulgarian language and Albanian and probably some Greek but not Macedonian. The last century was invaded literary by the Serbians thankfull to the war and the treaty that formed new strange self conciusness. Today they need close relationship with the neighbours. So called Macedonians who already own passports of their close brothers Bulgarians and gain EU preferences are travelling abroad with no restrictions. Today the fear of instability of the new formed country give attention to the politic fear of usurpating their new power. You can see strange formed new historic period with old symbols never landed in these territories, like the new grandiouse architecture in the capital. These funny monuments trying to call old story of lost A.Macedonian counsusness from thousands years ago but forgeting the very close Slav routes which formed First and Second Bulgarian Kingdom and then added to Jugoslavia by the western powers. So today they have chance to get new identity and ideas but with very ancient understandings and fears from the future. These complexes are very deep integrated by different powers through the history of the last centuries. Their self counciousness play imaginere role in daily life on the Balkans with no identity, symbols and literature. Taking neighbour base foundation for the new state they put themselfs into isolation and slipping on EU scene every time they try to establish good neighbour connections with conflicts.
Nick the Greek
15 March 2013 19:57
The Hellenistic period of history begins with Alexander the Greats unifaction of the Greek City-States under the league of Corinth...it ends with the latin-Roman conquest of the Greek peninsula at 146 BC.

Macedonian-Greeks and Corinthian-Greeks felt the full force of Roman military power. These Greeks faced up to the Romans and were punished for it Roman-style...then sold into slavery.

Under latin-Roman rule, the Greek peninsula was demarcated and Macedonia became a senatorial-province of Roman. The rest of the Greek peninsula was sub-divided into prefectures of Macedonia and Thrace.

Under the Emperor Theodosius, the prefecture of Macedonia absorbed the provinces of Crete, Achaea, Thessalia, Epirus-Vetus and Epirus-Nova...the Aegean-Islands formed the province of Insulae, in the prefecture of Asiana.

After the reforms of Diocletian in the late 3rd Century AD, Maximian Augustus was appointed senior co-emperor in 285. Galerius and Constantius were also appointed Caesars, junior co-emperors, to govern under his "Tetrarchy", or "Rule of Four" where each Emperor would rule over his quarter-division of the Empire.

Epirus-Vetus was split-off and the province of Macedonia itself was divided into 2 parts, Macedonia-Prima in the south and Macedonia II Salutaris in the north. With the permanent division of the Empire in 395, Macedonia passed over to the Eastern part of the empire...the Greek speaking Byzantine Empire.

The original ancient-Kingdom of Macedon went through many stages of governance...the name the Romans extended outwards to cover other geographical areas far outside of the Kingdoms natural borders - for administrative purposes.

As we have just learned - FYRoM is not Macedonia, at least, not the Macedonia it covets and wants be...that place is in the safety of Northern-Greece where it belongs.

Macedonians have been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples for more than 3 Milleniums - FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not one of these!
Nick the Greek
16 March 2013 11:08
Only in Slavist-Turanic minds, do they erase the Hellenic-Identity of the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Only in the sick warped minds of some Slavists and some Turanic historical-revisionists, do they wipe-out the Hellenic-peoples from the demographic history of the Haemus [Greek] peninsula...the primordial homelands of the Greeks.

Slavist and Turanic pseudo-historians de-Hellenize Macedonians and Trojans respectively, in order to usurp their Identities. The Slavist scripts himself a history that makes Macedonians Slavic, whilst the Turanic scripts himself a history that makes Trojans Turkic.

The ancient history of the Haemus [Greek] peninsula is completely void of both peoples, yet Slavist and Turanic historical-revisionists rewrite the ancient history of Europe and teach it to their children students and pupils...without shame and without consequences.

Macedonians have been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples for more than 3 Milleniums - FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs for just 68 years...from since 1944, when Slavist philologists Serbianized the Bulgarian language and renamed it Macedonian.

Before 1944, the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM spoke Bulgarian and wrote in the Bulgarian Cyrillic script...the Tombstones of their dearly deaparted attest to that. After 1944, the same Bulgarian speakers had their Bulgarian-language Serbianized and learned to call it Macedonian.

Before 1945, there was never a Republic called Macedonia...this is purely a Slavist invention.

In antiquity...there was never a Slavic-tribe called Macedonians. This tribe came into existence in 1945, on the will of a Croatian - Comrade Tito and some Slavists that demanded it.

In the Haemus [Greek] peninsula, Greeks are native and Indigenous, original autochthonous peoples of the land - FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs No respect this fact, instead, they side with radicalized Turanic fundamentalists to rewrite the ancient history of Europe which wipes-out, erases the Hellenic-peoples from the demographic history of their own primordial homelands.
Nick the Greek
16 March 2013 16:52
We do know that the Slavic-speaking peoples of FYRoM are definately Slavic, but only in the cultural-linguistic sense of the word. We also know that the genes they carry are pretty much the same genes as those of the autochthonous natives, which kind of makes the peoples of FYRoM, Haemus-peoples. We do know ofcourse, that the peoples of FYRoM cannot possibly be Macedonians, on the basis, the peoples that lived there in the ancient-past were Paeonians and Dardanians, not Macedonians. The geography of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon did not reach that far up, to where FYRoM is situated today.

We do know that the Slavic tribes settled the Haemus [Greek] peninsula some time around the top-end of the 6th Century AD. We also know that some local Greco-Roman peoples Slavicized [[by force][by free will]] in that Millieu and circumstance on which they found themselves...Slavophones are a fine example - Greeks in mind body and soul, but with Slavic-speech to express their Greekness.

Being Slavic means being affiliated to the largest cultural-linguistic people-group in Europe. It must be stressed though, Slavs are not one ethno-genic racial monolith - they are Slavic on the basis of language and cultural affiliation.

So the Slavic-speakers of FYRoM are descendants of their immediate ancestral-forebears, the Slavic tribes that made the Haemus their home. From them, they inherit language and culture, but from the local Byzantine Greco-Romans they inherit much much more, they inherit their indigenous autochthonous status which stretches back to connects them to the earliest known peoples that inhabited FYRoM in ancient times...the Paeoninas and the Dardanians.

Slavists committed a major wrong to the peoples of FYRoM...they caused them to search for their roots outside of Slavdom and cruelly pointed them towards the ancient-Macedonians when this was favourable only to Communists serving to expand Slavdom to the Northern shores of the Aegean Sea.

Now we know, that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Haemus peoples...descendants of Hellenized, Romanized, Slavicized Paeonians and Dardanians.
Nick the Greek
17 March 2013 12:45
The victor always writes the event-history. This saying is always cited as a form of justification to rationalize the scripting of alternate-history.

FYRoM's national-history rests on the twin-alters of historical-revisionism and pseudo-history. The Slavists there use the argument above, that the victor always writes his own history to justify the scripting of their own versions of it.

FYRoM's Makedonists have scripted themselves a national-history and heritage so crude and so crass it defies belief, on the basis the substance and content of it do not stand-up to scholarly or academic scrutiny. When FYRoM's versions of history are scrutinized, they are found wanting.

In the crudest of arguments, they reason, Greek-historians scripted themselves the history of Macedonia because the ancient-Greeks were always the victors, so they got to write the history first and foremost.

We do know, that it is the victor that always writes the event-history. FYRoM argues that Macedonians were not Greek so the Macedonian version of history was never scripted...only Greek versions of it exist. The Macedonians conquered Greece according to FYRoM, so the Republic of Macedonia has the right to script their own version of history.

Very Crude and Very Crass, right!

If the ancient-Macedonians were not Greek and they conquered Greece...that makes them the Victors.

Victors always write history, in this case, Macedonians. It was Macedonian scholars and academics that wrote the event histories of Hellenism's expansion eastwards. If Macedonians were not Greek...why did they not write the Victors Version of history in the FYRoM script.
Nick the Greek
17 March 2013 16:07
The Balkans has always been a troubled region, a region of the world known for it's instability and historical upheavals.

For as long as FYRoM remains the focal point of disputes with the majority of it's neighbours, it shall remain the bone of contention and the apple of discord in the region.

FYRoM cannot exist in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula as FYRoM, nor can it exist under the much coveted name of Macedonia. FYRoM is an artificial-state with artificial-culture, a creation of the Communists during the last years WWII wartime Yugoslavia.

Under the strictest most authoritarian conditions Comrade Tito could impose on WWII Yugoslavia...on his will, did a Slavic-Macedonia come into existence. With the creation of a Macedonian-language [1944] and a Macedonian Peoples Republic [1945] Tito, the Croat dictator introduced a brand new Republic into the Yugoslavic Federation.

Where there was 5 South-Slavic entities in the Federation, now there was 6 ethnically organized Republics, with state infrastructure and apparatus to match.

Before 1944, there was no registered Macedonian-language in the Slavic-world, and before 1945, there was no Macedonian-Republic registered there either, these concepts are relatively new, created from Communism with expansionism for a cause.

FYRoM is an artificial-state with artificial-culture and artificial national history and heritage...elements of which have been looted from the neighbours. Culture, language, customs - the building blocks of nation belong to neighbouring-peoples, they are not unique to FYRoM, just borrowed and rebranded Macedonian.

With a Greek name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity, the peoples of FYRoM could be confused for being Hellenic-peoples, but when it is realized they speak near-Bulgarian for language and foster Slavic-culture inherited from 1,400 years worth of Slavic-heritage, it makes you wonder what their connections are to Macedonia.

No wonder the peoples of FYRoM are confused about their origins. They have a right to be bewildered, not knowing the truth about their true-life roots and ethno-origins has made them disorientated to the point where they confuse Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity with Slavdom.
Vasko
28 November 2013 01:21
Hell ass
😁
General Andronik
9 August 2014 01:41
MAKEDONIA FOREVER !!!!!!!!!!! No wonder that country s.c.greece is in financial trouble,spending EU money on dirty propaganda.For fast info go to American Encyclopedia and find out how those nonEuropean people got their name
from Latin "Graecus" or those who know nothing or the stupid ones name given by Romans when they occupied Macedonia after the fall of Macedonian Empire.Those people were from ASia Minor,Egypt,Irak,Libya/North Africa/ and had nothing to do with Dorians who were the same blood and spoke same language with Macedonians from north. The name/read artificial name/Hellenisam,Hellens... was introduced by Droysen/german historian-clown/ writing history custom ordered by politicians and inventing the so called greek race who in fact were blond tall Dorians very different from
short dark people with lost or mixed ethnicity from Northern Africa with no
culture or identity.
The s.c.Greek state was founded by Germans 1875 with prince Otto,16 years
old Bavarien as a head of newly founded country with funny name Greece
and nobody bother to change it or ask about origin of the name.
Vardar forever
11 August 2014 23:06
Well after pages and pages of historically proven facts the General has plastered us with his very own special form of Yugoslav logic and Titoistic scatology. :from Latin Graecus" my man says.. Well I guess we can always ask Kuzman the cosmic Vardar Magician/Historian to strike up a seance so we can talk to Aleksandar Velicki in his own South Slavic dialect and ask him is he a Hellene or a Yugo Slav....Who knows one of these days someone may ask the general what does the term MAKEDONIA mean in his native South Slavic tongue? No worries the answer lies in the HELLENIC dictionary...
John tyro
28 August 2015 22:21
Take a look at this http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ then all of you people who believe macedonians are greeks will feel stupid.
me
27 April 2017 09:40
For nick the greek
http://www.florina.org/news/helsinki_watch.pdf

I guess this is all made up to.80 pages knock your socks off.When there is respect their will be dialogue when there is not what do you expect.

If you have a comment, please post it here.
Name:  
login not required