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Macedonia Is Facing a Civilisational Choice

Published on , , Sofia

A fourth time in a row the EU member states will have to decide whether Macedonia should start accession negotiations. The European Commission made another recommendation with the annual progress report of Macedonia and even proposed an option to overcome the Greek veto over the negotiations until a solution is found to the name issue between Greece and the former Yugoslav republic. When presenting the reports from the enlargement package on October 10, EU Enlargement Commissioner Štefan Füle said that the Commission was ready to propose an "appropriate negotiations framework with Macedonia if the European Council recommended negotiations to start". In Commissioner Füle's words, that negotiation framework is directly bound to finding a solution to the name issue.

To a question of this website what exactly "appropriate" negotiations framework meant and whether the finding of a solution could be considered chapter one of possible accession negotiations, DG "Enlargement" of the Commission said that the current approach of seeking a solution to the name issue before starting accession negotiations has led to a stalemate. This is why a parallel approach is proposed - resolving the name issue in the early stages of the accession negotiations. For now, however, because of the sensitivity of the matter and because of the lack of opinion on behalf of the interested parties, the modalities that proposal to be implemented are still unclear. In case the member states accept the proposal, the Commission, through dialogue with the concerned parties, will define the criteria.

This, in any case, is a good news which creates hope that the long blocking of the European integration process of Macedonia might be close to an end. However, this does not reduce Skopje's challenges. On the contrary. Another neighbouring country to the former Yugoslav republic is beginning to formulate ever so clearer its discontent with the policy the government in Skopje leads. Bulgaria for years has been complaining from nationalist policies by the Macedonian government, from nationalistic and even insulting publications in Macedonian media, and also from "history theft". So far, Sofia has been applying the approach of the carrot, recalling a number of times that Bulgaria was the first country to recognise the independence of the Republic of Macedonia, moreover - by its constitutional name. Besides, Sofia always underscores that it supports the European perspective of its neighbour, although in the past years not that unconditionally as before.

But lately, there has been a change of approach. The government of Prime Minister Boyko Borissov has toughened tone and before the publication of the progress report of the European Commission Bulgaria sent specific remarks hoping them to be included in the text, especially in the part related to good neighbourly relations. Bulgaria expected "key" issues for the country to be taken into account in the report, like for instance the issue of good neighbourly relations, the attitudes toward Bulgarians in Macedonia and Bulgarian entrepreneurs. The text in the document shows that these remarks had not been taken into account: "There continue to be close ties with Bulgaria, notably in the economic sphere. Developments during the reporting period highlighted the need for more dialogue to overcome possible misunderstandings and different perceptions concerning historical, cultural and ethnicity based issues. Recent statements at the highest level have confirmed the willingness to move forward".

Bulgaria's disappointment that its remarks have not been taken into account led to a visit by EU Enlargement Commissioner Štefan Füle in Sofia last week. According to euinside sources, initially Bulgaria prepared for a tough tone in the discussions with Mr Füle, which was then softened. In a short statement for the media, Foreign Minister Nickolay Mladenov said that he had informed Štefan Füle about the concerns of the Bulgarian society from the nationalistic policy of Skopje. In Mr Mladenov's words, Bulgaria walked its path of agreeing with neighbours on its path toward EU membership, which is something Macedonia should do as well. Bulgaria is working on a new strategy for its relations with its Balkan neighbours, which is expected to be published by the end of the year and to be subjected to broad public debates.

As part of the preparation of the strategy, Minister Mladenov has been for months holding a series of meetings with experts, journalists, local authorities and public figures in the border areas. On the presentation of the strategy, especially its part for Macedonia, and the public debates that will take place in Parliament, will depend what position Bulgaria will take when the progress reports from the enlargement package are voted upon at the December European Council. For now the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is refraining from saying whether Bulgaria would vote against the report, which would practically reject the Commission proposal for a start of accession negotiations with Macedonia, or whether it would put forward a condition the country to have fulfilled the criteria for good neighbourly relations before that.

For its part, Macedonia continues to state its desire to build "bridges of friendship and cooperation" with the neighbouring countries. During a meeting last week with EU's ambassador in Skopje Aivo Orav, Macedonia's Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki said that "it is of exceptional importance that the relations between the countries in the region and regional cooperation be focused on matters that help improve connections and have a practical bearing on improving the citizens’ quality of life". Something which his counterpart Nickolay Mladenov fully agrees with, judging from his meetings in the border areas. And in a letter from November 2nd to his Bulgarian opposite number, Nikola Poposki writes: "We are both partners and friends, sharing a vision for a European roadmap", that should include respect for each other’s sensitivity to certain issues; history to be left to historians; development of a sincere and consistent policy of good neighbourly relations.

Judging from Commissioner Füle's statement, for now Bulgaria's objections are met only with understanding, not with support. For the media in Sofia last week, he said that he had very a "frank and constructive discussion" with Minister Mladenov, and before that with President Rossen Plevneliev and with Prime Minister Boyko Borissov, with members of Parliament as well. Right after these introductory remarks, however, he said: "The European Union is still facing consequences of the economic and financial crisis, and in response is addressing its problems and is deepening its integration". According to Štefan Füle, enlargement is part of the solution, not part of the problem and this is why it is very important to keep the momentum of reforms. Bulgaria, Mr Füle deems, is a key country for the enlargement in the region of the Western Balkans because of its "experience with successful transition and its unique geographic position". Bulgaria is a precious example for the countries in the region, which aspire for EU membership.

"We understand that Bulgaria has concerns in this respect. But Bulgaria and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia have strong and deep ties and we are convinced both countries can address and solve any open issues in a good neighbourly spirit based on the EU values and we are also making this point in our contacts with Macedonian authorities", Štefan Füle added. To move forward with accession negotiations boosts reforms, encourages inter-ethnic relations and creates an appropriate environment for the development and strengthens the good neighbourly relations, the EU commissioner added. The entire construction of his statement shows very clearly what the European Commission priorities are - at the moment the EU is facing tough challenges and a new change of its architecture. Enlargement is indeed an important priority for the EU but it is definitely preferable if it does not create additional problems.

Any attempts of member states to twist the hands of potential candidates are more and more disliked in Brussels, no matter how justified they might be on a national or regional level. The EU thinks globally and relies that the member states will act locally, abiding with the Union's major priorities. This is why Bulgaria and Macedonia are expected to solve their problems together and mainly on their own. This would be a civilisational choice for Macedonia which cannot shake off from the need to provoke its neighbours in order to identify itself, but this will also be a matriculation for Bulgaria as well, which has been a member of the EU for five years and which, although Commissioner Füle politely called an example of successful transition for the region, should never forget that it still is with a monitoring mechanism in a tough for reforming area - the judiciary. A mechanism that will preordain its relations not only with its neighbours but with the partners as well and the institutions in the EU.

comments
Sami Xheferi
6 November 2012 17:44
Macedonia? No nothing will be resolved internally, until the constitution of this republic is changed to account for the people of Albanian decent as equals with those of Slavic decent in this new state. Currently the constitution calls the republic the state of Macedonians (Slavs) and the rest of the people as just minorities. Which is not Equality. Every citizen should be called as the people of the new state. In America every person is considered an American regardless of ethnic makeup. The state of Macedonia needs to have a neutral name in which every citizen can proudly claim to be a citizen of that neutral name. Otherwise if a neutral name is not implemented then it will end up being broken apart in the future based on ethnic lines.

Greece and Bulgaria are not Macedonia's biggest problem, its internally where its biggest problem must be first solved.

The internationals so far are focusing their attention in the wrong place with regards to Macedonia.  
an Authentic Macedonian
6 November 2012 20:44
Sami,
Do you know the difference between ethnicity and language group?  Macedonians are Macedonians, period.  Nobody refers to Tosk-speaking Albanians or Albanian-Gheg.  
Secondly the one and only Republic of Macedonia grants extraordinary minority rights, even segregating its school system to appease separatist Albanian-Tosk and Gheg speaking Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox nationalists.
The EU's biggest problem is its double standard and its appeasement of hyper nationalistic modern Greeks and Bulgars.  Why was Bulgaria allowed to join EU and NATO when its school system teaches larger Bulgaria ala Tready of San Stefano which includes a large swath of modern Greece.  Hypocrites
Sami Xheferi
6 November 2012 21:51
I did not know that Bulgaria still has land claims on Greece?

The problem Authentic Macedonian is that you and your brothers and sisters have been brainwashed to believe that an actual Macedonian language really exists, just the like Arvanites of Greece have been brainwashed to believe that they are Greeks when the entire world knows they are Albanians except for them. 

Remember the old saying?

The bigger the lie the more it will be believed.

The biggest lie of mankind is Religion, the second biggest lie is we are the Pure Race "Nazi Germany" Both lies have caused millions if not billions to lose their lives. The sooner the lies are stopped the closer mankind will be at peace.
Sami Xheferi
6 November 2012 22:00
Anyone with a higher education level of 8th grade , knows that religion is the biggest ongoing lie of mankind's history.

How did it go on for so long? Easy, mankind was majority uneducated until the 20th century.
Its only been the last 20 years that the majority of the people on earth have surpassed 8th grade education levels.

Non educated people will believe just about anything because they are naive to the truth, just like your parents and grandparents were to believe the lies made up by Marshall Tito of a Macedonian language.
Truth
6 November 2012 22:29
@ Sami .. keep up brainwashing yourself by believing the crap u hear learn or even writhe.
Just keep ure eye's shut .. and ignore how so called albania respect minorities. 


Mehmet
6 November 2012 23:05
Sami Xheferi, are you one of those people who believes in the myth that the modern day Albanians are descendants of the Ancient Illyrians?
Vlado
6 November 2012 23:22
I totally agree with Sam. "The state of Macedonia needs to have a neutral name in which every citizen can proudly claim to be a citizen of that neutral name". Balkan Central Republic would be nice!  
Arben
6 November 2012 23:31
Vlado,
 
There are Turks, Vlachs, Romani, Greeks & Macedonians who live in Albania; should Albania also change it's name to Western Balkan Republic?  It's a two way street champ.
Bosanac
6 November 2012 23:32
@ Mehmet, If the Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians then i will claim that i'm a direct descendant of both Jesus and Mohamed.
anonymous
6 November 2012 23:35
The constitution was changed after the war in 2001. An agreement was made. We can only assume the Albanians negotiating at the time made a sound agreement. So now the constitution still need to change? How is a country supposed to go forward where you have a immature citizens that are still stuck in their short sighted nationalist agendas? Maybe you should start another war see how you go. 
anonymous
6 November 2012 23:47
The EU  are making a major blunder by ignoring the ultra nationalist extremism, hate speech and historical revisionism going on in Skopje. If they keep it up, its only a matter of time that the EU will start to lose members. Behaving like Chamberlain and appeasing   wannabe be ethnic cleansers makes not for good neighbourly relations.
Lirim
7 November 2012 01:02
@ anonymous, If Macedonia's government is ultra nationalist/extremist, i would hate to know your thoughts on Greece's neo-nazi politicians.
 
 
Zlatko
7 November 2012 01:44
Albanians that live in Macedonia are called, "Shiptari"  they are Macedonian citizens.Albanians that live in Turkey are called "Arnauti"and they are Turkish citizens.
How come the shiptari in Turkey don't protest that they are called ARNAUTI???
Vlado
7 November 2012 10:50
@ Arben, At least Albania doesn't claim the name "Macedonia" (Northern Greece).nor does it steal its neighbours customs, identity, history,  CHAMP!!!
me
7 November 2012 11:37
actually Albanians are descendants of Scottish crusaders (they weren't Muslims but sold out to the Turks for free land even Scotland's original name is Albion) so why not go back to Scotland via Tuscany the way you came to the Balkans.
Peter
7 November 2012 14:02
In USA there are more than 20 million Latino people with the majority of the Irish,Scots,English etc.Does the US needs to change to a different name?.Further,why should the USA claim the name"America"?Their northern and southern neighbors are America as well.The truth is,the people are integrated,identify themselves as they please,and at the end,they identify themselves as Americans because the nations name is America.But more important,the people are looking to make better life for their families regardless of the name in the adaptive country and their birth countries.People progress where there is unity of people to build the countries future!  The geographic name of the Republic of Macedonia has been in existence for centuries as Macedonia.The more divide,the worse standard of living you will have.No ones identity has been taken away in Macedonia,it is same as in USA,all you have to do,work harder to build the country you live in,the better life you will have!
Ljutvi Asparuh Samras
7 November 2012 20:20
I think that the people are brain washed in Macedonia. And I know how it happened. It was one day in 1945, after the second world war. when everybody woke up the next morning they were all Macedonians. They forgot the Bulgarian language they were speaking, they forgot the Greek names they were given by the Greeks, and just start hating Albanians, which by the way fought on the side of the Nazis, ( like the Greeks, and the Bulgarians) , but that is another story.  This miracle of miracles where 2 million people learned a language overnight  is still little strange to me, but those are minor issues. I, Ljutvi Asparuh Samaras have the ultimate argument - Macedonians are not Macedonians. They are Albanian Bulgarian Greek mixture which are brainwashed. They all should have names like main. Ljutvi -Albanian with no other connection or similarity to any other nation in the world,  Asparuh - Bulgarian Tatar who pretend to be  Slav, and Samaras - a proud Greek from Turkey. Those Macedonians can not understand the purity an honor system of the our states - Albania, Bulagria and Greece. First we conquered Macedonia in 1913, divided it on three pieces, than we were Nazis in 1945, and now we are all in NATO , trying to tell these poor people in Macedonia the truth. You are Brainwashed. What a farce.  
A History Professor in Greece.
7 November 2012 22:07
@ anyone who feels Macedonia has stolen the identity of other nations.  Macedonia, Greece, Albania, Bulgaria and many other countries were a part of the Ottoman empire for 500 years ending in the year 1913.  This ended with Macedonia requiring the aid of it's sister countries to be rid of the ottomans from their land and reclaim their culture.  All countries agreed and Greece, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria and Macedonia all helped each other fight off the Ottoman empire and the Ottoman empire ended.  However these countries backstabbed Macedonia by saying "We helped you, now we require a prize"and so they striped Macedonia of parts of its land and distributed between each other. They signed a document saying they would own that land for 100 years and give it back.  Don't believe me, search up "Treaty of Bucharest".  After this document was signed any Macedonians within Greece, were prohibited from speaking Macedonian, and were tortured if done so as well.  (Can be proven) And for those of you who say Macedonian is Bulgarian, or Serbian as in the language, that is false, Macedonian is its own language, belonging to the Slavic language family tree.  For Macedonian to be a dialect would mean there would be no trouble for speakers of one language to communicate, this can be done easily by Elders of both countries because they can hear the similarities between their languages and piece together a sentence to understand it, where as young adults or even children would have extreme difficulty doing so making them separate languages.  Macedonian and Bulgaria are like Swedish and Norwegian, both under the same language tree, can be understood most of the time but both completely separate languages.  And denying this fact is just idiotic, this is fact, you are stupid to say this is not true when it has been both studied and proven. Anyways going back 4000 years ago.  There was no such thing as Greece, do not get mad, this is the truth, there was no country but City-States.  Macedonia could not have been a part of Greece, if Greece never existed, secondly, Macedon was a kingdom, already ruled by a hierarchy.  There are ancient Greek tablets which say both Ancient Greece and Ancient Macedonian are different, in fact Ancient Greeks called Macedonians "barbarians" which literary in Ancient Greek meant "people who do not speak Greek".  The portion that greece took from Macedonia (1913) is that of Thessaloniki, in which Thessaloniki is one of the greatest economical contributors to that of Greece, and Greece does not want to let it go.  Saying Macedonia stole the culture of Greeks is also idiotic, because they are sistering countries, when two countries are that close they should love each other and respect each other's difference and because they are so close, both adopt things from each other, its not stealing.  Thats like saying Canada steals from The United States because, Canada listens to the same music The United States does.  
anonymous
9 November 2012 23:54
Macedonia should join the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) and the European Economic Area (EEA). It would get all the advantages of EU membership without any of the hassle.
Nick the Greek
10 November 2012 12:37
To the Greeks in the diaspora, it appears as if the Slavonic peoples are so in love with the ancient-Greeks they want to become them, or at least a portion of them. The Modern-Greeks they no really care about. To the Slavs, the modern-Greeks are not real Greeks in their view but titular Greeks...Greeks in name only, not in substance.

To the Slavs, here I mean South-Slavs ofcourse...Greeks were created by the West (1829) in order to cheat the Slavonic peoples from their true history and real heritage in Greek (Haemus) peninsula.

To the South-Slavs, Greece is a Western invention, created by the West in order to halt Slavdoms expansion southwards, thwarting the Slavonic Navies from accessing the warm-water ports of the Northern-Aegean sea.

To the Greeks, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are seen as the victims of Slavdoms crued attempts at social-engineering, the by-products of Slavdoms cruel methods at ethnic-manipulations.

To the Greeks, FYRoM's Serbians and Bulgarians confessing to harbouring Macedonian ethnic-feelings and collective-memories rooted in classical antiquity...is proof of the above statement.

To the Greeks, it appears as if Slavdoms mind-architects instilled in the minds of some Serbians and Bulgarians, the Idea they are Macedonians, Indoctrinating them in Makedonism a now outdated Slavist-based expansionist-Ideology who's beginnings can be traced back to the establishment (1878) of the Bulgarian-Exarchate.

To the Greeks, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are exactly what it says on the tin...South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

To the Slavs of FYRoM, well they have been Indoctrinated to think of Greeks as anything but Greek. For them, modern-Greeks are not Greeks at all but Black-Ethiopians mixed with Christian-Turks, Albanians and Vlachs...including Slavs, a large number of rogue Grkoman-Slavs who sold-out and became modern-Greeks.

To the Greeks, FYRoM is Slavdoms creation, created by Slavist mind-architects with purpose and intention to take Macedonia away from the Greeks, by stealth or by military means...the Greek Civil-War (1945 - 1949) witnessed both Serbians and Bulgarians cross-over into Greek territory with intention to aid Greek Communists tear Macedonia away from Hellas and to place it in Slavic hands.

To the Greeks, FYRoM is a hostile country, nesting hostile anti-Hellenic Slavs Indoctrinated on Makedonism...taught to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

Greeks live next to primitive - brainwashed South-Slavs, taught to hate Greeks and Hellenism. I say, give them Nothing...from them take everything, No Mercy, No surrender
Nick the Greek
10 November 2012 18:25
If the Slavs of FYRoM are under the impression, there is still a chance for them to usurp the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes, they are
mistaken...there is no chance for them to take that name away from the Greeks. FYRoM's claim is now viewed as being non-valid and no longer taken seriously, however much they plead for internationl recognition under the Macedonia(n)name. In the clearest possible terms understood in the world of diplomacy, the general consensus generated is for FYRoM to compromise, to find a proper, more suitable name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity.
When the UN, USA, EU, NATO and the International Academic Community are all saying the same thing...that FYRoM should compromise in the name-dispute it has been engaged in with Greece, the politicians there should take the feedback seriously.
The Onus is on FYRoM to compromise...this is the next step!
If the Slavs of FYRoM are under the impression they can still swing it in their favour, to get the international community to recognize them as a nation of NoN-Greek Macedonians, with roots and connections to ancient-Macedon and Alexander the Great...they are mistaken.
There has to be movement otherwise FYRoM shall stay in the same place, a place of it's own making...Shunned and Shoved-up a Siding, kept at arms length, at a distance until the people there are permitted to learn about Macedonians-proper, and about themselves, like who they really are and from whence they really come from.
Macedonians are the Greeks who still live in the historic-region of ancient-Macedon in Northern-Greece. For as long as they exist...Nobody else is allowed to use their ancient and archaic, regional-tribal name for self Identity or for self-determination purposes.
Really now, show me a world-diplomat or a global-politician that is still prepared to award FYRoM, a Slavic country, the Macedonian-name...at the expense and total exclusion of the Greeks. They No exist, right!
 
 
 
 
 
 
patrikios
10 November 2012 21:14
the history professor in Greece who commented above should know as a historian that the treaty of Bucharest on part of Greek Macedonia has been overlaped of the treaty of Lausanne and the final agreement in 1948 with the annexation of the dodecanese. As one of the UN founding members Greece's current borders are a de generis political status and therefor NOT NEGOTIABLE OR TO BE CHALLENGED.
Nick the Greek
11 November 2012 11:57
In FYRoM, every other street name there is assigned Alexander or Philip, these are the most common, but Cyril and Methodius are just as common. Ancient-Greek names are much sought after in FYRoM, they can be found adorning huge-statues archways and monuments lining the streets, roads, boulevards and highways there...not to mention stadiums and sports-arenas, even international-airports. The Greeks shouldn't mind, they should find it quite flattering that a neighbouring country even wants to use Greek-names for their streets and place-names.

The Greeks do mind though, they mind because the people there in FYRoM, deny those names are Greek in the first place.

1... (link to www.behindthename.com)
2... (link to www.behindthename.com)
3... (link to www.behindthename.com)
4... (link to www.behindthename.com)

In FYRoM, everything Greek-Hellenic is converted to take on the name Macedonian because this is the name they want to use for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes.

In FYRoM, the people there do not recognize Greeks as being the sole and legal heirs and inheritors of the ancient-Hellenic, Macedonian legacy.

In FYRoM, the people there have been taught to consider Greeks and Macedonians being two different races of peoples.

In FYRoM, they deny Alexander the Great his Greek-Hellenic Identity. They do the same to King Philip of Macedon, and to Cyril and Methodius...the two Greek-Byzantine Monks who
in medievil-times, Baptised, Christianised and Civilised the Slavic tribes into Greek-Orthodox Christendom.

In FYRoM, the peoples there have been taught to deny the Greek-Hellenic peoples their rightful history and heritage in their own primordial-homelands...the Greek (Haemus) peninsula.

In FYRoM, the peoples there have been brainwashed on Makedonism...Indoctrinated to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

The Greeks despair but we No give-up!

Greeks shall continue to shove it in their face at every opportunity...the overwhelming evidence from an abundance of primary and secondary sources which place the Macedonian name in the Greeks domain and assigne Macedonian-Identity to Greek heritage.

Greeks have to do this because Nobody else will do it for them!
Nick the Greek
11 November 2012 14:42
No matter how many statues of Alexander the Great and King Philip of Macedon are built there in FYRoM, nobody is going to believe that they were Slavic.
FYRoM, a Slavic-Nation competing against Greece, a Hellenic-Nation, over seemingly trivial matters concerning ancestral-inheritance, cultural-heritage and historic-rights to the ancient-Macedonian legacy...two nations at odds over the use of a name. Both Greece and FYRoM find themselves stuck in a position where neither of them can back down.
For Greece, the preservation of the name has become a potent patriotic symbol, with an ever increasing apetite to keep it in the Greek domain...public opinion there demands it.
For FYRoM, the preservation of the name has become a matter of national survival...without the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes, the state ceases to exist, with the peoples there having to revert back to their Southern-Slavic Serbo-Bulgarian tribal-names.
It's more difficult for FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs in that they do not see themselves as being either Serbian or Bulgarian, in mind, body or soul...having been sufficiently seperated from both of them from since 1944, when the Peoples Republic of Macedonia came into being on the demands and the will of the ruling Communist elite which governed Yugoslavia during WWII.
For Greece history is important. One need not walk long distances in Hellas to encounter something physical from the distant-past. Modern-Greeks are reminded constantly and repeatedly, every morning they wake-up...who they are and . from whence they originate.
The burden of having to defend the virtues of Hellenism the Greeks should not have to do alone...Western Civilization owes Hellenism something.
Greeks can not permit the Slavs of FYRoM to usurp the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes...even if they are transitional-Slavs, Slavs that have been sufficiently distanced and seperated from their original Serbo-Bulgarian roots and ethno-origins. Their search for Identity, rooted in classical-antiquity can be found in ancient-Paeonia, or ancient-Dardania, FYRoM sits on those ancient-lands.
FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity pales in comparison to the Paeonian-Identity they could have, or the Dardanian-Identity they could have...out of those three, FYRoM chose the wrong one, the worse ill-fitting Identity they could possibly chose, on the basis, the Macedonian-Identity does not bode-well with South-Slavs, even the ones that are in transition searching for new Identity to replace their old one, their old Serbo-Bulgarian Identity.

 
 
 
 
Nick the Greek
11 November 2012 17:57
The political consequences for FYRoM chosing the Macedonian-name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity have been devasting for this recently established Balkan statelet. The Greeks objected immediately to FYRoM using an ancient-Greek, regional-tribal name to describe themselves both ethnically and nationally.
Whilst it is perfectly understood, countries wanting to establish themselves in todays modern and complicated world have absolute sovereignty to determine their own name, freely and without outside - foreign interference...nobody ever envisioned the situation where a newly emergent country would elect to adopt for usurpation, the name of another peoples, a neighbouring peoples, as evidenced in the FYRoM case.
FYRoM chose freely, an ancient-Greek name to describe their newly established Slavic-country. The Slavic-peoples there want to use the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes...making themselves Macedonians in the ethnic and national context.
It took the Greeks to expose FYRoM's wanton preemptive strike, at taking the Macedonian-name away from the Greeks under the banner of human-rights and the cloak of self-determination.
Breakaway entities wanting to establish themselves as new country's in this world, have absolute sovereignty to do so, but common-courtesy and common-sense dictate that you chose something original, something applicable only to you, yourself as a breakaway entity. FYRoM did none of those things...FYRoM found it chance and took the opportunity to go on a diplomatic preemtive-strike at taking the Macedonian-name away from the Greeks and Hellenism.
There is no doubt, the Macedonian-name belongs in the Greek domain. There is no doubt, Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek-heritage...FYRoM ignored these reference-points and paid the price for it's opportunistic attempt at converting something Hellenic into something Slavic.
Macedonia has always been intrinsic to Hellenism and an integral part of the Greek-Hellenic peoples as a whole, only harderned propagandists or a severley brainwashed individuals attempt to de-Hellenize them in order to become them. FYRoM is a nation Indoctrinated on Makedonism, an Ideology which attempts to convert Hellenic things into Slavic things...but for Greek Objections! 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Alex
12 November 2012 08:23
Real Macedonians have only ever been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples, evidenced in the historic-region of ancient-Macedon in Northern-Greece where today, the Macedonians there have to defend their heritage and protect their history from Slavic usurpers, fraudsters and opportunist culture-thieves
Nick the Greek
12 November 2012 20:35
Only natural things can survive in nature, in natures-world...natural-law demands it, dictates it. To want to establish a Macedonian-Nation outside of Hellenism, and to want to people it with NoN-Greeks is unnatural, it is not natural to want to do that, it contradicts natural-law, but it was attempted anyway.

Nobody fought harder to establish FYRoM as an independant (NoN-Greek) Macedonian-Nation than Turkey...the staunchest supporter of their cause. FYRoM owes Turkey a debt of gratitude but Turks were not the only ones to back the FYRoM cause. After some heavy-duty encouragement from the sponsors - rogue-scholars appeared, writing their own unique pseudo-historical accounts of the classics, whilst FYRoM's specialist-propagandists turned the history of the Macedonian-region upside-down. They made well known ancient-historical personalities like Alexander the Great, King Philip and Czar Samuel from medievil-Bulgaria, ethnic-Macedonians! FYRoM with Turkey, plus the backers, sponsors and supporters of their cause made Greece and Bulgaria the enemy initially, then Albania and Serbia later.

FYRoM, surrounded by enemies...the 4 Wolves as they were known, needed protection against them. In essence, FYRoM became a Balkan protectorate for the backers, the sponsors and those who supported the cause, to establish a (NoN-Greek) Macedonian Nation in the Balkans. Almost immediately, it was realized, it was impossible to protect a country like FYRoM from the likes of those 4 Wolves. The FYRoM cause was abandoned and Turkey lost Israel, a strategic-partner the Turks made good use-of. But that was then, and this is now...the Ambo Pipeline and other such energy supply routes are still being sketched and worked-on, but without FYRoM being the focal-point or the center of attention. In essence, FYRoM's strategic-importance in the scheme of things has diminished greatly to the point where the country now, is beneath the radar.

FYRoM does not get a second-look anymore...the country is kept at arms length, at a distance, it's importance in the scheme of things does not register anymore.

In the Greek (Haemus) peninsula, the important countries have always been Greece - Turkey, with Serbia and Bulgaria kept a very close eye-on.
Nick the Greek
13 November 2012 21:36
Today we are seeing an attempt by FYRoM to snatch the proud history and cultural-heritage of another peoples, a neighbouring peoples...the Greek-Hellenic peoples.
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have no shame, they have nothing in common with conceptual or cultural Macedonia and nothing to do with Greeks or Hellenism. The Macedonians of old spoke Greek, a Hellenic Centum-language. They walked and talked like Greeks and did things in accordance and in the same manner like the rest of them, >230 known ancient-Greek groups, tribes and Kingdoms.
FYRoM evidently, is a small Slavic-country, populated by Slavic-peoples speaking a Satem Slavic-language proven to be linguistically the closest to Bulgarian-proper but for five Serbian letters added by some Slavist-philologists back in 1944 war-time Yugoslavia. Communists renamed an otherwise Serbo-Bulgarian hybrid-language to Macedonian-language.
It's obvious isn't it, FYRoM is meant to adopt the name "Macedonia" in order to give itself indigenous-native status in the Balkan (Haemus) peninsula. The name will add some backround-context, the historical-culture it lacks, and then, at some point into the future, an established more confident FYRoM gets to claim that "historical-culture" to expand its territories into Northern-Greece.
FYRoM's destiny, the reason for it's existence is to acquire the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes. There is absolute purpose behind it, to adopt for usurpation the Macedonian-name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity, the complete guide to Identity-configuration. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs become Macedonians in the ethnic-racial sense, cultural-linguistic sense and in the national-sense, at the expense and total exclusion of the Greeks.
 
FYRoM has taken us to brink of our national tolerances. Why should the Greeks tolerate such hostility, such primitive behaviour from a small neighbour-country. Greeks have right to protest against FYRoM's anti-Hellenic actions. Our pride is our National-history and cultural-heritage...the Macedonian componant of it playing a significant role.
 
 
 
 
 
Nick the Greek
14 November 2012 20:43
True Macedonians are from Northern-Greek stock and of Northern-Greek descent. For them, the Slavs of FYRoM are viewed as being opportunist culture-thieves attempting to usurp their ancestral-inheritance and cultural-heritage by claiming they are Macedonians, and that Macedonians are somehow different from Greeks.

True Macedonians have to endure this type of anti-Hellenic propaganda from Vardar-Slavs, this is their old provincial name before they rebranded to become Macedonians in 1945. They have been lied to for so long, FYRoM's young Slavic children actually believe they are Macedonians, on the basis they live in a country called Macedonia and speak Macedonian...a language concocted from the hybridization of Serbian and Bulgarian. Vardar-Slavs portray themselves as Macedonians with roots and connections to Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

True Macedonians get riled having to listen to FYRoM's lowly-educated young people confess to harbouring ethnic-feelings and collective memories for ancient-Greeks.

True Macedonians know that the educated-classes in FYRoM get a high from rubbishing Greece and Greek-history, the thrill for most of them is in opposing Greece on historical matters and the gratification-factor for them is in watching Greeks squirm at their antics. Those thrill-highs and gratification-highs they glean are fast wearing thin because for many in that country have voluntarily weaned themselves-off the narcotic effects of Makedonism, the Ideological doctrine which has so captivated the minds of Slavdoms young people.

To confound it all, FYRoM's prior benefactors had no choice but to drop sponsorship backing and support for the cause, which in the end was based on falsifications of Graeco-Roman classical history and FYRoM government lies about their own history...manipulated and distorted to serve an illegitimate purpose.
Nick the Greek
15 November 2012 21:01
November 20th, 1991. On this day, FYRoM became an independent country in it's own right.  
Up until then it had existed as a Socialist-Republic within the confines of a Yugoslav Federation.
In its constitution, the new state dropped the Socialist part of its Yugoslavic name and entered onto the world stage as "Republic of Macedonia."  Greece objected, now this newly established Slavic country has to use a name they dislike..."The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" or FYRoM for short.

For Greeks, real Macedonia, the historic-region lay in Northern-Greece. The ancient-Kingdom
of Macedon, the borders were well defined even then: according to the ancient-geographer Strabo.

There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, p329a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.
Macedonia is bounded, first, on the west, by the coastline of the Adrias; secondly, on the east, by the meridian line which is parallel to this coastline and runs through the outlets of the Hebrus River and through the city Cypsela; thirdly, on the north, by the imaginary straight line which runs through the Bertiscus Mountain, the Scardus, the Orbelus, the Rhodope, and the Haemus; for these mountains, beginning at the Adrias, extend on a straight line as far as the Euxine, thus forming towards the south a great peninsula which comprises Thrace together with Macedonia, Epeirus, and Achaea; and fourthly, on the south, by the Egnatian Road, which runs from the city Dyrrhachium towards the east as far as Thessaloniceia. And thus the shape of Macedonia is very nearly that of a parallelogram.
11 What is now called Macedonia was in earlier times called Emathia. And it took its present name from Macedon, one of its early chieftains. And there was also a city Emathia close to the sea. Now a part of this country was taken and held by certain of the Epeirotes and the Illyrians, but most of it by the Bottiaei and the Thracians. The Bottiaei came from Crete originally, so it is said, along with Botton as chieftain. As for the Thracians, p331the Pieres inhabited Pieria and the region about Olympus; the Paeones, the region on both sides of the Axius River, which on that account is called Amphaxitis; the Edoni and Bisaltae, the rest of the country as far as the Strymon. Of these two peoples the latter are called Bisaltae alone, whereas a part of the Edoni are called Mygdones, a part Edones, and a part Sithones. But of all these tribes the Argeadae, as they are called, established themselves as masters, and also the Chalcidians of Euboea; for the Chalcidians of Euboea also came over to the country of the Sithones and jointly peopled about thirty cities in it, although later on the majority of them were ejected and came together into one city, Olynthus; and they were named the Thracian Chalcidians.

Can FYRoM really Rubbish This!

Nick the Greek
16 November 2012 22:41
Why do the Slavs of FYRoM fight to Rubbish Western-Civilization!

Alexander the Great spread Hellenism, the Hellenic-culture, Greek-language, know-how, thought, ideas and wisdom eastwards, throughout the ancient-world in what is now known as the Hellenistic Period of history.
Alexander the Great was perhaps, the single-most important person in western civilization, and the one person future Europeans aspired to emulate...the military genius future strategists looked-up to and used for reference.
Why do the Slavs of FYRoM want to Rubbish This!
Nick the Greek
17 November 2012 20:13
FYRoM is a New Country, this is a fact. A Newly established country without history is just that, a New Country. Without Macedonia in their name...FYRoM has No history to call their own. A Country must have history to justify it's presence, otherwise without history that country must declare itself as a New Country just starting one.

FYRoM is the classic case in question here...established November 1991. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are a Newly Emergent peoples who have freely excercized their human-rights and sovereign-right to self-Identify themselves as Macedonians and to self-determine their New Country as Macedonia.

The problem is this: The Macedonian-name belongs in the Greek domain whilst Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage. The history of Macedonia, and the legacy onward-transmit, they get passed-on to the Hellenic entity representing Hellenism in the modern-age. The Slavs of FYRoM are not Hellenic to claim Macedonian-ancestry and Alexander the Great was not a Proto-Slav, in-fact, he preceded the Slavs by almost a Millennium.

On the name issue, the Slavs of FYRoM Abused their sovereign-right and the UN human-rights charter when they freely chose an ancient and archaic, Greek-Hellenic regional-tribal name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity. When a Slav from that New Country casually calls himself ethnic-Macedonian for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes, he is taking something away from Greeks and Hellenism. But that is the whole point of their existence, to take Macedonia away from the Greeks!

Alexander the Great spread Hellenism, the Hellenic-culture, Greek-language, know-how, thought, ideas and wisdom eastwards, throughout the ancient-world in what is now known as the Hellenistic Period of history. The Macedonian legacy is for Greeks to cherish, to hold dear...not for the Slavs of FYRoM to Rubbish, under the banner of human-rights and the cloak of self-Identity or self-determination. FYRoM is the first country in the world and in the history of mankind to take another peoples name in order to claim it for their own, in the ethnic-racial context and in the cultural-linguistic context...because the UN charter of human rights caters for new countries to have sovereignty over their freely chosen self-Identity and self-determination name.

FYRoM Abused those rights...right! It's Not right, that the Slavs of FYRoM were given the attention and the recognition in the first place, by the very institutions who are now keeping them at bay, at arms length, at a distance. FYRoM must be stripped from the Macedonian-name...on the basis, it doesn't bode-well with South-Slavs
Nick the Greek
17 November 2012 22:07
During antiquity, Macedonia was a Greek-Kingdom inhabited by Northern-Greeks and ruled over by a succession of Greek monarchs which included King Philip of Macedon who's son Alexander the Great spread Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language, knowledge and culture thousands of miles eastwards into the orient and beyond. In those days Macedonia was a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-lingual place where Illyrians, Thracians, Celts and Dacians
intermingled under Greco-Macedonian rule. The Greek language and Hellenic culture dominated there, above and beyond the languages and cultures of others...The Greekness of the Macedonians was recognized acknowledged and enshrined in peace treaties between barbarians and Macedonians.
Through-out history, whether during classical-antiquity, from ancient-Greece to the rise of Rome, and from the decline of the Roman Empire to late-antiquity and from the migration-period to the middle-ages right-up to Byzantium, Macedonians were signaturies to many a treaty. The Greekness of the Macedonians was never in question, contested or dispute until FYRoM entered onto the world-stage in the modern-age during November 1991.
From since FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs proclaimed themselves Macedonians in the ethnic and racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense...Greeks have been locked in dispute over the Greekness of Macedonians through-out history, from ancient-times to the present.
FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs took something good like the classics and Rubbished them, converted them into something Vulgar...where they scripted themselves a history and a heritage so crude and so crass one cringed at the sight of a South-Slav proclaiming himself a descendant of Alexander the Great, a lifelong Greek-speaker who spread Hellenism to the far reaches of the ancient-world. That FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs had the gall, the front and the bottle to go live with such unsophisticated revisionism and pseudo-history speak volumes about their intelect and how easy it is for some to manipulate them.
 
 

 
 
Nick the Greek
18 November 2012 12:11
Macedonian-Identity is neither ethnic-Identity or National-Identity as FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs would have us believe. Macedonian-Identity is regional Northern-Hellenic Identity. The Slavs of FYRoM have found a way to self-Identify after a Greek-Hellenic territorial place-name with intention to adopt it for usurpation. Territorial self-determination conflicts are conflicts where people-groups from more than one ethnic-racial backround live together in close proximity forming territorially concentrated common Identity, and where one of those groups stakes claim to the whole territory on the basis of exclusivity. By making a geographic-term, ethnic, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs take first-step to becoming important claimants to a territorially concentrated Identity used by more than one ethnic-racial people-group.

Macedonian-Identity is regional geographic-term from since the coming of the latin-Romans to the area. Romans extended the size and shape of the original ancient-Kingdom of Macedon for administrative purposes. The latin-Romans recognized and acknowledged the Greek-Kingdom by naming it Macedonia-Prima, keeping the territory seperate and distinct from the added-on, extended parts which they named Macedonia-Secunda Salutaris.

The history of Macedonia is so familiar to us now, it makes FYRoM claims to Macedonian-Identity appear wishfull thinking, the somewhat erroneous belief that FYRoM's wishes are in accordance with reality.
Bujar
25 November 2012 22:24
to Bosanac

Albanians are descendants of illyrians, but what are bosnians? in my view they are muslim serbs.
Nick the Greek
26 November 2012 19:54
There are more Macedonians in Greece than anywhere else in the Balkans. The peoples of FYRoM are not one of these. In-fact, they are not actually Macedonian...they are Bulgarian, by blood, Yugoslavicized from since 1913. It's complicated but it's the truth. Macedonians are Greek by blood, proud Hellenic-peoples.
http://my.raex.com/~obsidian/soubalk2.html#Macedonia  The original Macedonians were an aggressive and turbulent folk of Hellenic stock, responsible for one of the world's great (if ephemeral) empires. What follows is a record of the Hellenic state, together with the subsequent development of the area, and ending with a record of the southern portions of Macedonia which are now once again in Greek hands.
Macedonians have always been Greek...Greek speakers, Hellenic Peoples. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not one of these. Why should a newly emergent Bulgarized - Yugoslavicized peoples, residing in a recently established country, be awarded an ancient-archaic - regional-tribal - Greek-Hellenic name for their new country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity. Why should these Bulgarized - Yugoslavicized peoples be given the time of day, when it is known: Macedonians already exist, they are Greeks.
Macedonians are the Greeks that still live in the historic-region of ancient-Macedon in Northern-Greece. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not one of these!
There are more Macedonians living in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece than anywhere else in the world. Greeks by blood: Born from Greek-speaking Hellenic parents. Greeks by speech and by genous...blood related to the rest of the Greeks, the Greek family, the Greek-Hellenic Collective of peoples.
 
 
 
 
 
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