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"Secret" monument of Alexander the Great in Skopje angers Athens

Published on , , Sofia

If one should judge about the greatness of a nation on the basis of the size of its monuments, then Macedonia is definitely a great country. A huge bronze 12 m high figure, accompanied by a 10m pedestal, is the newest Skopje's gain that has been transported from Florence and will be put up in the capital city within two weeks time. The whole composition, including the rider, the horse and a fountain, is worth some 10m euros, according to local media's calculations.

"A warrior on a horse" is the official name of this "bijou" but everybody knows that it is actually a monument of Alexander the Great. The authorities have invented this abstract name to avoid angering Greece again. The trick however didn't work and the Greeks, as expected, reacted immediately by accusing the Macedonians of usurpation of their history and inflaming nationalism.

Let's put aside the issue of the monument's cost and the debates whether it fits in the city's landscape. The question is who needs such a megalomania? The whole project Skopje 2014, part of which is the controversial statue, is a potential generator of disputes with Macedonia's neighbours (see the project here - the video on the left). The so-called "new face" of Skopje envisages monuments of Tzar Samuil, Sts Cyril and Methodius, Naum ...

Obviously in search of its identity or in an attempt to gain recognition of it, Macedonia feels the need to tell the world via such monuments which of the historic figures belong to it and how did they contribute to the Macedonian (and world) history.

Raising monuments in parks, gardens and squares could indeed raise the popularity of the government among ordinary people (which was confirmed by the election results) but is not contributing at all to maintaining of good neighbourly relations, which is among the criteria for EU membership.

For 20 years now Greece has been unable to swallow the constitutional name of Republic of Macedonia, seeing in it territorial claims. The name dispute not only blocks Skopje's accession to NATO but also delays the start of the talks with the EU.

The two countries should be less concerned about this dull competition of who is more worthy and should focus instead on resolving the serious economic troubles they are facing. Macedonia is facing high unemployment rate of over 30% and outflow of FDI, while Greece is on the verge of default. Instead of participating in disputes over history, Skopje and Athens could demonstrate more flexibility and common sense and follow the example of Slovenia and Croatia that reached an agreement on their border dispute and will become soon equal partners in the EU.

comments
Dimitri From Athens
7 July 2011 18:48
DearAnonymous, all of the theories you exposed just above are simplyunattested. Have they ever been presented to any internationalcongress of historic or archaeological studies so to receive anyapproval?
Not at all!These are theories directed towards you by the “scientists”and  "scholars" of your country simply for propaganda reasons.
Yousay that Greeks received words by the Macedonians without use of anyhistorical proof.
Thewhole case does not justify such an assumption as the words werecommon to all the people that inhabited the Greek peninsula (theGreeks actually – Macedonians included).
Sowho did receive by whom? Why Greeks from Macedonians as you say andnot both sharing a common language through their dialects as mostscholars worldwide claim?
Further,how is it possible that we came from Iran area and received wordsfrom Macedonians?
A prerequisiteto the above should be that the people were mixed to each other, or awar or a cultural and commercial activity took place at a very earlystage, so that we received these elements.
To say here thatthis kind of influence is always bidirectional and not from one sideonly. However this is not the case here as there are only commonwords and not words that belong to one side only that were receivedby the other.
Actuallythere is no evidence about any from the above mentioned activities (war,commerce etc) to have taken place before 800 BC, where the ancientGreek language was formed the way we know it now. This simply means thatthe words were not taken by the “Greeks” or the “Macedonians”but were used by all these people in common as I already mentioned –or if you know any different case just let us know!
Sincethe scholars world wide, have accepted the Greek language as aprimitive language, it is natural that the Macedonian language was aGreek dialect as its vocabulary shared nearly everything with therest of the other Greek dialects of the time.
Now,the Greek Nation was made up by the total of the Greek tribes(Ionians, Dorians etc) as this is attested by the answer theAthenians gave to the Spartans prior to the battle of Plataea . Fromthis we understand that they considered each other as been parts ofthe same (Greek) Nation. To note here that Macedonians were of Dorian stock.
Dimitri From Athens
7 July 2011 18:54
Greeceindispute with Turkey FYROM and now Albania?
Whatever it's not about fool and smart guys but about forge of history, according to interests, against the truth. Who's on one side and who's on the other?
Everybody’s argumentsare welcomed, provided that they do bring some facts with them. Don’tcome with empty hands like you did through your above postings.
 
 
Dimitri From Athens
7 July 2011 18:59
By saying “vindi”you are probably referring to the “Veneti” people.
There are two groups of ancient people under this name. The Veneti living at north of the Adriatic gulf and the Veneti living at the area of the Baltic Sea .
The first were probably people of Illyrian or Latin descent, the second are of undefined origin. (could be of Slavic, Germanic or Baltic stock).
Some Slovenian scholars claimed through a theory that the Adriatic Veneti were proto-Slavs. This theory was objected by other Slovenian and International scholars as well and is considered now as not active.
They never received any approval through any international conference, so no reason to make any fuss about it.
All these theories (like the silly one about deciphering the Rosetta stone by your Tentov-Bosefski genius ...amateurs in archaeology ) are used for propaganda reasons only by the FYROM authorities and are of no value.
Dimitri's cousin from Athens
9 July 2011 02:29
this quote seems to fit with you and your beliefs dimitri, if you like it you can claim it to be greek aswell, although history uninfluenced by greeks will show its a quote from Mr Adam Savage.
"I Reject your reality and substitute my own"
anonymous
9 July 2011 18:37
Ants, Windisch, Phoenicians, Veneti and other peoples in the Balkan and in Europe of the genus of course Windisc, they're sinonymous with the Slavs. So Dimitri the Windisch or Vindi and Veneti are different tribes form slavs Windisch
anonymous
9 July 2011 18:40


anonymous
9 July 2011 18:42
According to Herodotus, the ancient Greeks borrowed their alphabet from the Phoenicians, then the SE Veneti Enei or those living in northern Asia Minor. From them has survived to this day toponymy such as Tabor, Suez, Golan, etc. Dardanelles. In Greece and its islands is also keeping the toponymy. Here are a few place names najkaraterni venetski: Island of Karpathos, Rhodes Island, Lakka - Lucky, Langada, Langonikos, Longos, Accra, Rodja, Stratoniki, Stratones, Stratonision, Stratis, Stratis IBM Island and countless others, almost without exception ancient fenikijski, venetski,antski or underscore ancient Macedonian
anonymous
9 July 2011 18:45
These examples sozbivat the de facto claim of the German linguist Max Fasmer his book Die Slaven Grichenland Inn (Slavs in Greece), in which around 2400 toponimski review unit without atarskata toponymy, which means about 40,000 and, of course, concludes that ( toponymy) originated from sixth to eighth century of our time. Linguist Fasmer oozing the Veneti, as a nation left in Europe while toponymy (the same or nearly the same) from one root, as is the case with the city Ternovo (the British Isles). Tirnovo (in Thessaly, Greece today).
Dimitri From Athens
9 July 2011 22:16
@
<<Ants,Windisch, Phoenicians, Veneti and other peoples in the Balkan and in Europe ofthe genus of course Windisc, they're sinonymous with the Slavs. So Dimitri theWindisch or Vindi and Veneti are different tribes form slavs Windisch>>
 
Quite interesting information; can you provideany relative link(s) about all these?
Dimitri From Athens
9 July 2011 22:20
@ anonymous
<<Accordingto Herodotus, the ancient Greeks borrowed their alphabet from the Phoenicians,then the SE Veneti Enei or those living in northern Asia Minor. From them hassurvived to this day toponymy such as Tabor, Suez, Golan, etc. Dardanelles. InGreece and its islands is also keeping the toponymy. Here are a few place namesnajkaraterni venetski: Island of Karpathos, Rhodes Island, Lakka - Lucky, Langada,Langonikos, Longos, Accra, Rodja, Stratoniki, Stratones, Stratonision, Stratis,Stratis IBM Island and countless others, almost without exception ancientfenikijski, venetski,antski or underscore ancient Macedonian>>
 
What do you mean through all this?
I am sorry I don’t see what's the clue of it.
P.S. Since you speak English, please useEnglish terminology or you become hardly understandable e.g. what’s the meaningof  fenikijski  or  venetski?
IBM Island? What do you mean by this?  Where is this island? next to the AMD one?
Dimitri From Athens
9 July 2011 22:23
@ anonymous
Max Fasmer (or Vasmer) has not saidsomething new.
Regarding the Greek toponymes of Slavicorigin, this led Fallmerayer to his erroneous theory about modern Greeks derivingfrom Slavs. The theory was based mainly on the Slavic names of the Greektoponymes and a few more false information that were adopted recklessly by him(like the Pitakis’ document).
Whatever, it was proven wrong by manyscholars of the time (eg the Germans
 Hopf, Thiersch and the Slovenian  Kopitar)   andnow this theory rests in peace along with its inventor.
Since 1870s when Hopf wrote the “Slavs inGreece” that reversed, with use of several facts, Fallmerayer’s ideas, no one elsehas ever attempted to support again similar theories.
someone...
14 July 2011 13:25
..."With regards to Julius Caesar, do French, Polish, Russians or Czech people claim him as being a non-Italian but French, Polish etc?"...
I didn't know about Julius Caesar - He was Italian?!? Truly one?! - (Berlusconi will be overjoyed...)
Dimitri From Athens
15 July 2011 06:05
The Roman Julius Caesar belongs to theItalian Nation and a recognizable historical figure for the Italian Historylike the Athenian Pericles belongs to the Greek Nation and the Greek History,the Corsican Napoleon belongs to the French Nation and the French History andthe Prussian Bismarck belongs to the German Nation and the German History andnot a historical figure claimed by the Polish or the Lithuanians.
Alexander the Great belongs to the GreekNation and makes up a recognizable historical figure for the Greek Nation too.
I guess you probably don’t like it but I amsorry to say who cares about what you or I like in person.
 
someone...
15 July 2011 15:29
Of course - history knew his personal statement about his pure Italian origin...
What could I say now? O tempora, o mores...
Dimitri From Athens
15 July 2011 21:10
Please doelaborate and express yourself.
Please dogive us a clue about what do you mean through all these?
Can thePortuguese claim Caesar as a National symbol?
To mylimited knowledge only the Italians can do so. Right? Are they wrong?
Should theChinese claim him as a National symbol as well or should theLithuanians also claim Bismarck as a National symbol too?
someone...
16 July 2011 21:09
..."To my limited knowledge only the Italians can do so."...
Maybe by yourself, you confer the answer to yourself. For me - there is no problem if some Chinese, Arabian, Indians or the Lithuanians claim anybody as a National, personal or public symbol. They could claim some Macedonian also, without problem, without any permission, allowance from anybody or some kind of approval. So, it confirmed the conversation (or monologue) has no clue...
anonymous
18 July 2011 15:53
Don't argue with an idiot, they'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ;)
anonymous
18 July 2011 15:54
and I meant the pro-macedonian propaganda
Dimitri From Athens
19 July 2011 22:10
@ someone
I am sorry to say this does not make any sense.
How can it be possible that Napoleon can be a hero for non-French people?
Can you advise the reasons why he could have been a National symbol for the British, the Germans or the Japanese for example?
Dimitri From Athens
19 July 2011 22:24
@anonymous
I guessyou are 100% right.
Aperfect example of your sayings are the comic attempts ofTentov-Boshevski,
two FYROM“scientists”, to decipher the Rosetta stone and prove that thetext depicted in the middle is the so-called “Makedonski” ancientlanguage!!!
The textis actually a typical sample of the Demotic Egyptian script and hasbeen deciphered already for the past 200 years!
It'sdecipherment has helped in the interpretation of thousands of scriptsof this kind but these charlatans keep on their silly attempts thatmake them a cause of hilarity for the serious scientists world-widebut the poor people inside their country fall victims of thisshamfull propaganda and believe in the “mystic Makedonski ancientlanguage”!
Sad but Ihave to agree with you!
someone
20 July 2011 12:19
By their freedom of choise, from theirs natural rights, their discretion, free will, emancipation & etc.-  for  me - are fundamental and very good reasons...
Dimitri From Athens
20 July 2011 21:50
Am I justified to claim “by freedom of choice”,“free will”, etc, etc anything just because "I like it"?
What about my neighbour's Porsche/house/wife? I really like it/them all!
May I claim his wife as mine just because "I like her"?
Am I justified to claim “by freedom of choice”that a neighbour’s father is my own father?
Can unjustified claims make up a “fundamental right”?
Can you advise where did you read this?
No, if I claim someone else’s father/property etc as mine, I become either a cause of fun for the people or a suspect for impersonation and/or fraud.
I think at any case you are wrong or give me a good reason why you can be right.
anonymous
21 July 2011 06:51
ooo poore greeks tribes, irans pirates, came to Balkan with a language of few words and think that they are the nation of culture, nooo wild people u stoll u're language and alphabet from phoenicians and ancient macedonians ( slavonians) were at balkan before u ass holes and made u're own language with adding to the word -os ets. byeee greece and kill u'reself each other haahahahahahhahahaaajahaahahahah
someone...
21 July 2011 12:53
At the end, after all "arguments", "historical truth", "scientific ellaboration" - the true nature has gently come out... I didn't knew that Alexander or Julius Caesar were neighbour's Porsche/house/wife or someone else’s father/property?! I thought that Alexander's father was Philip II the Macedonian, the barbarian?! (Sorry, I didn't knew that he was your father also)
This conversation will had his clue, maybe in 1941, or before, when people debated about pure races, favoured and privileged nations, their motherland & fatherland (father's property?!) But now, sorry - without any purpose, without meaning, no use...
Chris
26 July 2011 13:43
Do the greeks really understand that as the world does not revolve around Athens, although a mountain of the EU budget/Money is at this time pouring down a large hole in the government buildings. Never to be seen again, except maybe in the pockets of the corrupt.There are a lot more important things on the agenda than. Should the Republic of Macedonia be called something else. What does it matter, most of you getting all steamed up about it should remember, that the Country of Macedonia has existed for at least a generation and that you will all be dead by the time two more generations have been born.I don't know what the family name of Dimitri from Athens is, but I am sure that if he was told tomorrow that his name was no longer acceptable, his reaction to whoever tells him that, is they should get stuffed.Well Dimitri? Right or wrong
Dimitri From Athens
27 July 2011 00:30
@ anonymous
Iguess this is the best of your arguments you can ever  present!
Goon! I enjoy seeing that people can realize what the best of your qualities arethrough this filthy posting as well as your silly arguments!
A“Macedonian alphabet”! An alphabet that never existed, no one ever has seen it,with not even the slightest indication that it may have been existed and yet toclaim it as real without even the slightest proof!
Dimitri From Athens
27 July 2011 00:33
@someone
Youstill remain unintelligible to me.
Inever said that I support the idea of National purity. This however does notmean that we are irrelevant to the ancient Greeks. My arguments can be found asper above. Alexander the Great is part of the Greek history and as such is partof our history. If you are a Greek you are participant to this history; if notyou have your own history that is different and has nothing to do withAlexander and all the rest of the Greek one; eg Tsar Samuel is part of theBulgarian history and I – as a Greek – am not justified  to claim him as a Greek king! That would beimproper the less!
Myargument about claiming other people’s property/history etc was quite clear andaccurate I think but you preferred to mix Caesar with Porsche instead of givingyour own arguments.
Orto reverse my argument: can I, as a Greek, claim Tsar Samuel the Bulgarian asmy national hero?
Dimitri From Athens
27 July 2011 00:36
@Chris
Both,right and wrong. It’s sad that your propagandists taught you that you are“Macedonians” despite the fact that you are Slavs and Macedonians were Greeks. Aboutone century ago there were no Slavs claiming themselves as Macedonians; theword was simply unknown to their vocabulary. The only who knew and believedthat they were Macedonians were the Greeks. It was the Bulgarians first andTito next that pushed the south Slavs, and people of mixed origin (Slavic-Greek)and some of the Greeks of the area as well, to become “ethnic Macedonians”. (TheBulgarians claimed them as Bulgarians from Macedonia, while Tito’sadministration claimed them as a different and new nation: the Macedonians).
Atany case they both played with the use of the name to support their aims thatwere to claim and seize the Greek area of Macedonia, something to which theyboth failed.
Nowyou have been brought up as “Macedonians” which is hard for you to abandon. Youclaim this as your name and about your right to bear the name you like, however itsuse by you and its acceptance from ourt side, legalizes the claims against the Greek territory and its history andculture.
Territory,history and culture of Macedonia are Greek and cannot be altered.
Byusing a name that belongs to others is not your right at all.
Itis called impersonation, is a crime and is prosecuted.

 
anonymous
27 July 2011 17:53
ooo puree dimitri u and all these people,where u read it that macedonians are greeks why not only greeks, why macedonian??? ionian also were not greeks even the dorian hahha who are greeks. i read a piece of history where the greeks called themselfs for battle with persians and is written by herodotus greeks and ionians get in battle with persians and macedonian and thessalian let the persians to attack greece from theirs teritory. Macedonians are different tell us this.....
someone...
28 July 2011 20:51
No comment...
bobi
22 August 2011 15:09
macedonia is not greek and never will be greeks think they created the world and its history  what idiots.
bobi
22 August 2011 15:13
macedonia is not greek and never will be. greeks think they created the world and its history  what idiots.
bobi
22 August 2011 15:36
greeks must learn to unlearn there fake history fordged by its story tellers . greece and its, can i say greek people must never forget the bulkan war in 1913 where greece stole at least half of macedonia's land.
and in saying that greece does say that its borders did expand in the bulkan wars they show us this proof .
greeks like (dimitri from athens) should realy read up on history and find out where he comes from, most ill educated people like ( dimitri from athens) are greeks that come from turkey that read rubish on top of rubish .
greeks are short and fat with big parrot like nose's unlike the macedonian tall strong and goodlooking. ha ha macedonia will crush greece again long live macedonia
Dimitri From Athens
23 August 2011 00:08
@bobi
Fakehistory is only one and is the one you invented by stitching parts of Greek andBulgarian history just to make successful fiction.
 
Greecein 1912-13 liberated from the Turkish yoke nearly 90% of the Macedonian land,the rest 10% was taken by the Serbs and now is part of FYROM.
Byhaving some 10% of the historic Macedonia does not legalize you to make use of theGreek name of Macedonia.
 
Therest about history can be found in my postings just above.
Pleasedo read them and if you have any serious objections please post them and I amhere to receive and evaluate them in turn.
Incase that you do not have to say something of importance I shall be glad that Ishall have contributed to expanding your limited knowledge…
Dimitri From Athens
23 August 2011 05:47
@bobi
PS.I see you are full of hate against the refugees.
That’snatural.
Inability to defend your propaganda created positions against truth brings hate againstothers.
Natural,shameful and sad…
anonymous
3 September 2011 15:06
Macedonia was, is and will be forever!!!! it's clearly, greece never had macedonia, it happend when they was affraid to lose the aegean period that was stollen. that's the truth!!!!!
Australian Politician
10 September 2011 03:39
Hello Greeks,

Your a nation who lives for your so called glory years thousands of years ago. Let go of the past and accept the fact that its only a matter of time before the Republic of Macedonia is made official. Instead of focusing on the Republic of Macedonia bordering your nation, why dont you put your efforts into the massive internal issues you have with debt, unemployment and lazy culture you all have to working hard! The EU should teach you a lesson and let you default, then you will all have to work hard to pull yourselves out of the whole your in. The Republic of Macedonia always has been and always will just that!
Dimitri From Athens
16 September 2011 21:21
Dear AustralianPolitician,
You areliterally out of topic.
Thesubject here is about the forge of history, the lies the FYROMpropagandists say to their own people and the claims they haveagainst their neighbouring countries and not about the financialsituation of Greece.
Apparentlyyou chose the wrong topic. (I guess this is due to the impeccableinstinct most politicians have). You can find the desired one andthen copy-paste your comment.
P.S. Themore this story continues the more the people world-wide realizeabout the lies of the Scopje propagandists.
The soonerthis name-issue ends the better shall be for this country and itsinhabitants.
They haveto compromise however...
ordinary citizen from Balkans
21 September 2011 09:37
Recently my friend was visited in Belgrade by her girlfriend from Skopje, and she was that stupid to say that they (Macedonians) were not Slavs. For me that is total ignorance and blessed brainwashing similar to that of Nazi Germany's epic adventure in Himalayan region before WWII to "validate" that they are super race. Also the Croats said a several years ago that they have Persian heritage.... Montenegrin say now that they don't have any connection to Serbian people and yet their greatly treasured kind Njegos said and wrote that he is Serbian and that they are Serbian's yeah and all the people from Balkans came from Krypton.To sum it up, it is now shame to be of Slavic origin and all the independent states that came from Yugoslavia started to create some new identity. It is as simple as this, the regions settled by the South Slavs greatly influenced the people (language, religion etc.). It is fair to say that the Balkans is a great mixture of nation's that are now trying to present themselves as unique as possible. Macedonians (slavic) should understand that if they have some monuments from hellenic period that does not mean that they are descendants of ancient Macedonians, you can find in today's Turkey there is many monuments from hellenic period (Ephesus, Millet and Troy) and they are not Greeks. We (Serbs) could say that we are roman descendants because 8 roman emperors were born in today's Serbia the most known of all was emperor Constantine (Nis-Naisus).http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/548156/Slav?anchor=ref221386      
Dux from Macedonia!
29 September 2011 02:49
@Dimitri From AthensNo one knows that Alexander the Great the Macedonian King and Ruler was Greek :) First of all Greece belongs to people from Ethipioa and other african nations people, while ancient macedonians belong to the older mediterrean people which once more confirms the fact that macedonians came the time when Illyrians and too Thracyans came and belong to the same people. And guess what, Modern Macedonians belong to that group too! While greeks are totaly different and have nothing to do with Macedonians. Further more lets get back in those ancient times and your "dilemma" which is invented by your gouverment not that existed from always nor it is proven anywhere. Greek name firstly is mentioned in 1813. Demosthenes rulled out macedonians as hellens and named them barbarians or non helenes! Alexander the Great spoke language that was unknown to the hellenes and not understandable so they must to use translators like they did in the war against persia when on macedonian side were 30.000 slaves from hellas, and in order to communicate alexander brought and translator, fact and proven. Next thing, why "greece" nor HELLAS is nowhere mentioned in the bible ? Europe did the greatest mistake they could ever make, on the contrary they could then forever seal the axes, if they gaved aegean macedonia where it belongs, to the macedonians! Aegean Macedonia was given to Greece as we all know and people were beaten and punished if they spoke macedonian. In those times its createn the greatest denocide ever in the human history! Macedonians flee, who could and wherever they could just to remain, what they are - Macedonians. As for the proofs weather we are or not descedants of Alexander the Great is very ridicolous to mention cause from those times many people changed many nations too! There is no single country which is clean and has no minority. Hows that only greece appeares to not have minority ? Is it weird? yes it is! The only problem with Greece today, is cause if we are accepted from EU and we enter as full right members, macedonian people have right to recall on their properties, something which will make total chaos!!!! Chaos like its never ever seen before! Can Greece afford that? OF COURSE NO! so what they are doing is creating totaly fake history, promoting around the world and making each steps in order to deny macedonian existance and defending its territory which was given to them cause someone maybe was drunk and gave decision from some ideas of his own, maybe who knows??? So, as i read it, Athens is mad or whatever... Athens is mad? MAD FOR WHAT ? Alexander was never Greek! He spoke Greek only on international level cause Greek language was international, like nowadays its English, does that makes me englishman ??He worshiped Greek culture is true, we all do, i do it to! But whats logical and rightfull i cannot go against it. Greece are saying to that WE MACEDONIANS are stealing from them? No we are not! They are stealing from us! U all are missing the poent! They twist the story upside down saying we steal from them! THEN TELL ME WHERE WAS THAT REGION BEFORE 1913 YEAR ??? TELL ME THE NAME OF THE CITIES! They only know to say U ARE SLAVS AND U SPEAK BULGARIAN! No! We SPEAK MACEDONIAN and we are SLAVS WHO MIXED WITH PEOPLE LIVING BEFORE THEM ON  THIS LANDS! 90% of them Macedonians. Hows then possible IGENEA, swiss DNA and genes scientific analysis to say modern macedonians are the only related to ancient macedonians and belong to the same group of people and greece doesnt! Since when tell me Kutlesh Sun is with blue background ??? Since 2006 2007 ? Who is faking the history ? Who made the scars my grandpa wears on his back! Were is burried his father! Where is his property ? Do you think a KING, A KINGDOM was the same like those city-states of Hellas ? Do you think Alexander united some GREECE nation that never EXISTED before 1813 ? As word, as name, as reference ON ANY MAP! Hows possible then Alexander to be Greek? If Greece is Hellas then we here speak for some different language and understandings. Does anyone knows that Macedonians had totaly different customs and the same are used today? In wedding in holidays in the manners of how people act in given circumstances etc! GREECE IS FAKING AND STEALING MACEDONIAN HISTORY! NOT MACEDONIA GREEK! MACEDONIA WAS NEVER HELLENIC! MACEDONIA BELONG TO OLD MEDITEREAN NATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO SETTLED THERE BEFORE HELLENS CAME! If you just look at their sayings "behind the mountains" no one can tell you exactly where! Whats the assurness in such comments? Its more likely to be fake!  
Dux From Macedonia
29 September 2011 03:10
@Dimitri From Athens

"5)   They participated in the ancient Olympic Games. Everybody knows thatAncient Olympic Games was the most important event in the Greek worldand the participant athletes had to be Greeks according to therules. No Persians, Egyptians or even the Illyrians or Thracians,people with closely related kinship to the Greeks had everparticipated. That means that Macedonians considered themselves asGreeks and also that the rest of the Greeks considered them as Greekstoo."
i know a quote which says "firs day in school is the most important, why? cause of the first impression!" 
Now do you know what was the first reaction of the Hellens when aknowledged that Macedonia wanted to participate? They REFUSE and DENIED by all costs! But Olimpics were so interesting and done in high style that will eventually buy Macedonians to say they are Hellens or Friends of the Hellens so they can entry on the games. First time its important to mention that they were refused. 
And one more thing, i think with my own head, what is righteous what is logical not what is written on the internet books cause i know and many others too that its fake and its written by the Greek propaganda. Ancient Macedonian language is not greek nor ever was my friend. Lie lies in the very smallest details! And do you know whats that small detail ? :) ALEXANDER HAD WITH HIM TRANSLATOR SO HE COULD COMMUNICATE WITH HIS SUPPORTIVE "ARMIES"- SLAVES FROM HELLAS- BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now whats more likely to be? They spoke the same language or they dont ? :) Now you and THOUSANDS of other can come and show to me and introduce to me an arthefacts or whatever, which i know is more likely that alexander wrote them on greek same as me i would sign on english so everyone could understand it ;) - he did ... but not that he was speaking GREEK AS NATIVE LANGUAGE OR WAS HELLEN :) thats a very big difference and no one can deny it. Any try to go against that small detail which is EVERYWHERE mentioned in the books and info for the battle against Persia is absolute RIDICULOUS 
Dux from Macedonia
29 September 2011 03:20
I dont have anything more to say, as the name lives on and on, its not a coincidense i am not told to act like this nor i was teached to think he was Macedonian. 

Greece will never know who and from where exactly came those slavs they sayThey too will never explain why Alexander have conquered them for the glory of his nation and Kingdom Macedonia and didnt act like other Rulers of Sparta Mycean and others to be living as one. But Macedonians lived on their own ;) They too will never ANSWER why Greece is firstly mentioned in 1813 on any reference map as word or in any other form youd like to say. They too will never answer why Greece or Hellas (more likely Hellas i just say greece to say i mean on the new modern nation not on the once known Hellens) were mentioned in the Bible. They too will never know how the people and name continued living on and on and not being able to do genocide of all remaining people :) They will never explain hows possible the fact that Macedonians are a people living before the Hellens :) And weathers is other option that in fact GREEKS ARE MACEDONIANS not MACEDONIAN GREEKS ;) How they were, and why, called Barbarians! Many why, and as usual in nowadays its modern stuffs are MONEY, and they TOO cannot say WEATHER THEY HAVE MONEY FOR ANOTHER 3 DAYS OR NOT ... 
Poor Greece, we could have been BROTHERS! But you selfishness for GLORY for Something we carried on from one to another, father to son, to his son and to his son one to another for many thousand years had! Macedonians are DIFFERENT THAN YOU! GET OVER IT! 
Dimitri From Athens
2 October 2011 08:31
Dear Dux,I appreciate the time taken for you to respond through all this.However I have already answered to most of these points to otherguys so I think it boring to start again.
Just tofocus only to some points from your plethoric writing: Yr points in<< . >>
<<Alexanderthe Great spoke language that was unknown to the hellenes and notunderstandable so they must to use translators like they did in thewar against persia when on macedonian side were 30.000 slaves fromhellas, and in order to communicate alexander brought and translator,fact and proven. >>
The Greekmercenaries (30,000) serving with the Persian Army was not a uniquephenomenon; Greek mercenaries served many Armiew and people duringthe antiquity (eg the 10,000 Greek mercenaries served under thePersian Cyrus, Greek mercenaries in Egypt etc)
1. Alexandernever used any translator to communicate with the Greeks.
2. There isno source to state that Macedonians could not communicate with therest of the Greeks.
3. What isstated, is that a Greek general of Alexander had to pass his ordersto a Macedonian officer first and not directly to his Macedoniansoldiers. This does not mean necessarily that the Greek general andthe Macedonians were not speaking the same language. Different Greekdialects for sure but not other than Greek.
<<Greek name firstly ismentioned in 1813.>>
The name is mentioned at least sincethe sea-battle of Salamis (480 B.C.)
<< Demosthenes rulled outmacedonians as hellens and named them barbarians or non helenes! >>
Demosthenes was an uppish Athenian.Athenians of his kind called other people (even Greeks too) asBarbarians even for trivial things.
Besides, is well known thatDemosthenes had been called a barbarian by his opponents. So,according to this Demosthenes was a barbarian too! (not at all ofcourse. There is no conclusion about Macedonians were not Greeks just from the above)
<<In those timesits createn the greatest denocide ever in the human history! >>
Relax!
<< macedonianpeople have right to recall on their properties, something which willmake total chaos!!!! >>
If so, the hundreds ofthousands of Greeks who were forced to leave their places in Krusevo,Bitola, etc have the right to come back and claim for theirproperties left there. Right?

<<We SPEAKMACEDONIAN and we are SLAVS WHO MIXED WITH PEOPLE LIVING BEFORE THEMON THIS LANDS! 90% >>
If so, you are Greco-Slavs (orSlav-Greeks if you like). In such a case we wouldn't have problem toaccept you with any name you like and at any case since you alsorecognize your Greek identity.

<< Hows thenpossible IGENEA, swiss DNA and genes scientific analysis to saymodern macedonians are the only related to ancient macedonians >>
If so, then you are geneticallyGreeks

<< Since whentell me Kutlesh Sun is with blue background >>
So far to my knowledge thereisn't any Kutlesh Sun. If you mean the Vergina Star (or Sun if youlike), you have to know that inside your country you may call anyplace of the world the way you like but speaking internationallyyou have to use the official name the sovereigncountry has given to its place. Look at me: I said Bitola just beforeand not Monastiri, which is the Greek name of this city, just becauseI am addressing to you. Regarding the Vergina star, asthe ancient Macedonians were Greeks the symbol is Greek too.

<< Does anyoneknows that Macedonians had totaly different customs and the same areused today? >>
Interesting.Name some please.
<<Alexander was never Greek >>
ok
<<Now do you know what was thefirst reaction of the Hellens when aknowledged that Macedonia wantedto participate(about Olympics)? They REFUSE and DENIED by all costs >>
Alexander’s1st attempt to enter the Olympics at around 500 BC wassuccessful despite the initial denial of some of his other Greekcompetitors as they thought that he was likely to win. It is notstated that anyone else ever protested. The Olympics Committee askedhim if he was Greek. Alexander’s excuse about the Argead originwas simply childish but this was at hand and used without any secondthought. The rest of the Greeks accepted him not because of hisArgead origin but because they knew that Macedonians were Greeks.
Thecommittee decided that he could participate as he was a Greek and nobody protested. The full story can be found in Herodote's text.I can check and find relative site if you wish.

<<ALEXANDERHAD WITH HIM TRANSLATOR SO HE COULD COMMUNICATE WITH HIS SUPPORTIVE"ARMIES"- SLAVES FROM HELLAS- BINGO >>
Not at all!
<< Poor Greece, wecould have been BROTHERS! >>
As soon as all these issuesregarding claims on Greek History and Greek territories are resolvedwe can be brothers dear Dux.  All the best!

 
Nick the Greek
14 February 2012 13:06
Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people...we know because they told us so. As soon as they were able to read and write they expressed themselves in ways which are still apparent even today. Everything they ever wrote they wrote in their native language using letters from the Greek alphabet. Macedonians have always been Greeks...The most  fanatic Greeks recorded in the mainstream historival narrative.

Only harderned propagandists or severely brainwashed  Individuals can see Slavic things in ancient Greeks.

Yes, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Macedonians (regional) but they are Not Macedonian in the Greek sense of that word!
Nick the Greek
26 February 2012 13:23
FYRoM's rights to the Macedonian name are actually based on just one right, and that is the universal right to self-determine as you wish or as you see fit...so FYRoM took this right to mean it could usurp the Macedonian name exclusively, completely, totally and utterly for itself.

But FYRoM does does not have fraternal, cultural, linguistic or historic rights to that name, in the way that the Greeks espouse to have. So FYRoM's right to that name is on an equilibrium with that John Smith analogy which goes like this:

Two John Smiths could live in peace, side by side next door to each other...but if one John Smith attempts to adopt-usurp the Identity of the other one, that would be called Identity theft but in FYRoM's case, cultural thievery!

So FYRoM's rights evidently, only really extend to that one-off, that one-singular, universal right of self-determination.

It's quite absurd really, to make a song and dance about FYRoM's so called Macedonian Identity on the basis of just one right to self-determination...that would equate or be on par with wanting to self-determine as Donald Duck on the basis you could, simply because you have the right to do so!

It should be pointed out to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs that they do not have real or natural rights to that name...No fraternal rights, No cultural rights, No linguistic rights and No historic rights.

The only rights they have is based on that one-off, that one-singular universal right of self-determination.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs celebrate Alexander the Great in Skopje under what basis...for they have No historic rights to his legacy, so why do they do it then. Ofcourse, they do it for the gratification factor they glean from watching Greeks squirm at their antics. Slavists bred them for purpose, to denigrate-destroy Hellenism and to ridicule humiliate modern Greeks.

Absurd in the extreme, right!
pande
26 June 2012 17:26
pande . i have read all these coments every one work this out macedonians used to be fair, blue eyes blonde hair, history is never 100% - phillip 11 let the greeks in on macedonian land , yes they arrived on boats, phillip goven the bullshiit and it backfired dont wana go that far talking boat it... how could u explain if macedonians are greeks, the people dont look alike totally, and one is macedonians are very fair colourd race and greeks are the oppesite indeed. the ones that might have blonde hair well every one can work that out... oohhhh-yehhhhhhhhh!
james
27 June 2012 10:17
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Unilparathampa Sheet Piling Co
9 July 2012 22:21
Nick is right! Macedonians are Greeks not Southern-Slavs.

I have never seen a blond blue-eyed person from FYRoM. Most appear Turkic in looks and features. Some of them  look like Yasar Arafat.

Great posts though, I read all of them.
con
8 August 2012 12:19
at the end of the day the slavs arrived in macedonia in 600ad,,,,,,,,,so why do they use quiotes and claim macedonia from 900yrs before???even for some strange reason the ancient macedonians were not greek,,which they are.....the slavs from fyrom have no business in the history,,,,,,,,alexander dies in 323bc and they arrive in 600ad?????? lolololololololololol,,its a joke and embarrassing,,,,,,,,its like an australian from english heritage claiming history from 900yrs ago!!!! it was aboriginal,,,,,,,white man came here in 1788,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,get a life,,get your own history,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i can solve this mystery right now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,there should be 3 countries,greece,,,,,greek macedonia,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and the fake nation of fyrom,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,macedonia could be its own country,greek and only greek in every way,,,,,,,,,,,,the way cyprus is its own country and is greek
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